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#41905 - 02/23/07 04:55 PM Rookie Roller Videos
Rookie Roller Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 24
A/S/L: 34/M/Washington
I have been working really hard on my game over the last month and I'm seeing much better scores as a result. I started with a 127 ave in August and now it's at 143 and I have bowled 30 or more pins above my average the last couple of weeks. This is good, but I want to improve even more so I'm going to post a couple of vids and maybe you bowling gurus can tell me what you think I might still need to work on.

In this vid I'm throwing a Machine around the 3rd arrow...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cfCG8FBpF48

And in this one, I'm throwing a Scout around the 1st arrow...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HFzhYtbg7Hc

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#41909 - 02/23/07 05:45 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Rookie Roller]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
You've come a pretty good way, man! Certainly much different from your first video. One glaring thing I see is a big loop in your swing, though. It goes inside out and it looks like you short-arm your follow through. You need to try to keep your armswing along the same plane as much as possible, even if you're swinging the ball out. The ball looks like it comes behind your back a little and you have to clear your leg to get out of the ball's path. Try to stay a little more square and leave that shoulder muscle out of the shot.

Also, with that short-armed follow through, you tend to rise up at the finish a little. Try to stay down at the line and reach out further down the lane. You'll find some more consistency if you do.

Otherwise, your pace looks good and it's nice to see you're pretty decisive once you get set (only a couple of seconds from set to go). Your ball reaction also looks good and it's got a pretty strong movement. Great job! Keep up the good work!
_________________________
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#41912 - 02/23/07 07:22 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Brian Longo]
Rookie Roller Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 24
A/S/L: 34/M/Washington
Brian, I was hoping you would respond to this. I always appreciate your comments.

First off, you're absolutely correct about the follow through. I've noticed this as well and I will try to work on this by staying down and reaching out or extending at the line. Someone in my house mentioned this as well and I'm finding this to be a little tougher to correct then I first thought. I will definitely keep working on this.

As far as the loop backswing ... well this is one of those things that I knew I would get commented on. When I used a straight out and straight back type of swing, I would often pull the ball left of my target. And other times, I would over compensate and miss right. So to correct this, I tried to emulate the Walter Ray and Wes Malott type of inside/outside swing and it has really helped. I may not be performing it correctly, but my accuracy is way better then it ever was before. So how can I change my swing and still get that inside/out type of feeling at release?

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#41913 - 02/23/07 07:25 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I agree with Brian. The two biggest things I see are that you misdirect your armswing and that you cut off you follow through and break your arm.

If you free up your armswing it will drastically increace your accuracy. Right now you're manipulating your swing so that it travels in different directions. You have to do all of that manipulating exactly the same every time in order to deliver repeatable shots. That's extremely hard to do. On the other hand, gravity is a constant and will produce the same swing time and time again.

And breaking your arm like that is going to give you inconsistant results. You'll get a more consistant reaction if you keep your elbow locked.

I also think that you have a lot going for you and that you're certianly working in the right direction. Keep it up! smile

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#41916 - 02/23/07 07:56 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Lefty]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
I can believe that you are more accurate just because you're looking more fluid. I certainly wasn't trying to burst your bubble. smile

As I said, you look decisive on the approach and deliberate during your approach. Now, the thing about an inside-out swing is not to go overboard with it. It's tough to see from the camera angle, but I think that your shoulder might be a little too open and pointing outside your target a little too much during your third and fourth steps. It's not a lot, but it's something to note to make sure it doesn't start flying open because that can lead to pushing and pulling the ball. It's not to say you can't be successful with that swing, but it has potential to be problematic if not held in check. If you are swinging the ball, yes, you have to have a more inside-out swing, but hit has to be in control. When you're rolling more down and in (such as with your Scout), your swing plane should not be crossing your target trajectory - it should be in-line.

As for your short-arming, that might be easier than you think to correct. You can try looking further down the lane past your target; about 2-4 feet. This will "force" you to reach out further and make you extend your arm more. But...when you look past your mark, don't simply follow your target straight down the lane. Make sure your extended target is along the same sight line as your normal target. Example, if you're standing on 25 and targeting 15, you don't want to target at 15 4 feet past the arrows, you want to target 13 or 14. This way the ball maintains the trajectory you want. Otherwise, you'll be rolling over 16 and might wonder why your ball's not reaching the breakpoint target.

All in all, though, you look pretty solid and quite smooth getting to the line. Timing-wise, you look really good. What I pointed out was somewhat minor, but things that could affect your accuracy. I certainly wouldn't want to tame the reaction you have, because it seems like you have "controlled power". But I just wanted you to be aware of the potential pitfalls of such a loopy armswing. Archive this video set, and if you seem to be getting more accurate, shoot another video. Also, if you feel like you're becoming less accurate, compare it to a good shoot.

Keep tabs on your armswing because it does involve a little bit of upper-body twisting. You're getting there, and I would like to see you keep improving. If you can minimize the little extra upper-body torque and maintain that smooth swing, you'll be even better.
_________________________
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#41917 - 02/23/07 08:10 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Brian Longo]
Rookie Roller Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 24
A/S/L: 34/M/Washington
Thanks for your comments. You two are valuable members of this community and I appreciate all you have to offer.

I'll work on these tips in practice over the next few weeks and keep you posted of my progress.

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#41918 - 02/23/07 08:13 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Rookie Roller]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Thanks for the compliment. smile Glad we could help. I just like watching people improve and trying to keep them on the right track. You should see quick returns with the follow through work.
_________________________
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#41919 - 02/23/07 08:33 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
My guess is that if you're having problems being accurate without doing that, there's something else going on that needs to be corrected. You'll be better off fixing whatever else is wrong and having a more fluid armswing than just masking it with what you're doing now. It's not terrible, but you're better off fixing it now.

And for a thought on what might help that (it's hard to tell from the angle of the camera), but you might need to get the ball more right in your setup, and possibly push it a litte more right on your pushaway. It looks like you might be a little closed up, and if the ball is in front of your body, it will cause it to kick right in your backswing and then for you to pull it on release. Again, I'm not positive because I can't see where your hand is at setup and where your pushaway goes.



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#41934 - 02/23/07 10:36 PM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
One way to correct the shortened follow through is to look at the sprinkler heads up and slightly to the right of you. Follow through to the sprinkler heads direction and you will not fore shorten your follow through. YOu have a long "wing span", use it.

Erin

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#41951 - 02/24/07 12:56 AM Re: Rookie Roller Videos [Re: Lefty]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
Well, the armswing isn't a real problem if you can repeat it every shot. Are you in the pocket every shot or do you spray the ball around? Do you hit your target every time or do you miss a lot? Do you miss more to the right or the left? By how many boards do you miss?

There is a misconception that there is only one possible way of doing things. What anyone does is only flawed when it is unrepeatable. If you hop to the line on one foot and throw the ball between your legs, that is just fine it you can strike on every shot. Like you said, there are quite a few pros that use the same armswing that you do. The question is do you look like that on your strikes as well as your non-strikes? That abreviated follow through looks like you might be grabbing the ball at the bottom of the swing. But strikes always look pretty good. It means you did something right. You need to look at the misses also. Usually you will see more errors during the misses. With your average where it is, all of your shots couldn't possibly look that good. If they do then your average should be much higher.

What pins do you normally leave? Are they a variety of leaves or do you leave mostly single pin spares? The bowler that leaves mostly single pin spares is a pretty accurate bowler. If you are missing your target then you have too many complications in your armswing and release. The smoother the release and armswing is, the more accurate the bowler. There will always be exceptions. Like Walter Ray. He is a perfect example of a bowler who doesn't do things the traditional way yet he is the most accurate bowler on tour. It's either that or he has the best concentration on tour. His head moves at the line, He follows through way to the right. He muscles the ball at the bottom of his swing. His leg is floating in the air at the line, yet he rarely if ever misses his target. The reason is because he is able to repeat whatever it is that he is doing, every single time.

The less complicated the armswing, the easier it is to repeat. If there were only one way to bowl, then everyone on tour would look the same way. But if you can't repeat the style, then your style has some flaw in it.

With the inside/out armswing, it is imperative that you bring the armswing in close to your slide ankle. By doing this, then it isn't really a pendulum armswing. You have to move your armswing to the inside, close to your body. The closer the ball is too your slide ankle, the more leverage you have on your release. This action will usually bring your follow through out to your right. If you come all the way around on the release ( like Michael Fagan, Chris Barnes and others ) then your follow through will come back to the center. This is very hard to master. I hope you have a lot of time and money to practice. A second set of eyes would do you some good.
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