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#41886 - 02/23/07 11:29 AM League team member courtesy question
lysaer Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 36
A/S/L: Birmingham, AL
Ok, have a common sense question, just want to make sure I'm thinking correctly.

My roommate and I and a coworker just joined a "Beat the House" league at the local alley. It's mid-season, it's an easy-going league, and last night was our second night playing. It's the first time bowling in a league for all of us, and I think that I and my roomie both understand the concept of teamwork, but I'm not so sure the coworker does.

My roommate was bowling with her new ball for the first time in league play last night (not the first time with the ball, but she's had it less than a week) and with new shoes that aren't quite broken in yet, so her last game wasn't quite up to her usual standards, and she was getting frustrated. The coworker was just the opposite, he was well on his way to bowling at least 200, (though granted that was thanks to it being a 9 pin no tap strike night) and he was being a complete JERK about her score.

As team captain I asked him to try to be encouraging, and not to be an a-hole about it, and he responded with "I'm not a very encouraging person", and was actually more of a jerk the rest of the game, and as soon as the game was done he left. Last week, he wasn't exactly the nicest person, and he only acts this way during league games.

So the question I have is, should I talk to him about teamwork and give him a couple of league nights to straighten up, or go ahead and warn him that if he continues to act this way that I'm gonna kick him off the team? For one thing, I have to live with her, and I don't want her [censored] off either on the lanes OR at home. smile
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In the bag: Ebonite Total NV, Angular One, Tornado, Hustler 12
Highs: Game: 199 (Straight) 208 (Hook) | Series: 501
Average: 178 (unoffcial) 127 (league)

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#41887 - 02/23/07 11:36 AM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: lysaer]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Your co-worker's attitude needs adjusting. How you go about doing that is completely your business since you're the team captain. If you want to have a discussion with him, then try that. If you want to give him an ultimatum (i.e., shape up or ship out), try that. If you think his attitude will continue to suck, kick him off the team.

Or....if it was me (because I can be such a "not-so-nice guy" sometimes), when he started to have a bad game, I would start berating him like he was berating your roommate; a little "taste of his own medicine", if you will. To me, that would send the best message. But, that's how I would handle the situation. You have to deal with both of them on a regular basis, though. The people I've done this to, I didn't have to deal with on a regular basis. In fact, since I graduated high school, I have never bowled with someone, with the exception of my wife and a few friends of mine, that I saw outside of the bowling center.
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"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#41889 - 02/23/07 12:03 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: Brian Longo]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Dealing with a co-worker outside in a casual place can be hard cause you don't want that to effect your working relationship. If it is a peer, then it can be a little easier. If they are higher up in the food chain at work, it can get really touchy. You almost have to treat it the same way you would if you had the same issue at work. Not knowing your work environment, it can vary. Office environments you have to be a little more pc. If you are on a construction site, you can probably fire away a little more. Just be careful cause even though you want your roommate to be happy, people normally spend more time with their co-workers (that is a really sad thought by the way).


Edited by General Pounder (02/23/07 12:04 PM)
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#41890 - 02/23/07 12:16 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: lysaer]
Tyveil Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 463
A/S/L: Kansas
Tough situation, I've been in one similar. I kicked a coworker off the team because of her constant negative attitude that was affecting the team. In the end it destroyed our working relationship but improved our team chemistry and we had a lot more fun bowling the rest of the year. Thankfully it wasn't a permanent job so I didn't have to deal with this coworker much longer.

I do not recommend the "taste of your own medicine" approach that Brian mentions. This is (IMO) the worst thing you could do. Lead by example. When your teammate has a bad game be encouraging to him. Say things like "you'll get it next time", "shake it off, plenty of frames left", "nice try", etc. Also explain how his negative comments can do nothing but hurt the team. If he's a team player and wants to bowl then you can help him to adjust his attitude. Unfortunately some people are more work than their worth and the best thing may just be to drop him from the team.
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#41891 - 02/23/07 12:23 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: General Pounder]
lysaer Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 36
A/S/L: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted By: General Pounder
Dealing with a co-worker outside in a casual place can be hard cause you don't want that to effect your working relationship. If it is a peer, then it can be a little easier. If they are higher up in the food chain at work, it can get really touchy. You almost have to treat it the same way you would if you had the same issue at work. Not knowing your work environment, it can vary. Office environments you have to be a little more pc. If you are on a construction site, you can probably fire away a little more. Just be careful cause even though you want your roommate to be happy, people normally spend more time with their co-workers (that is a really sad thought by the way).


One advantage is that he's a coworker in that he works for the same company, but is in a different division and department. For the time being, he's in the same general office area as me but within the next couple of months will be moving to a different floor in the building (supposedly).

I'd rather not have to drop him from the team, especially considering hey...we just played the second week of our team! And it seems kind of silly to have to say "Dude, straighten up or you're gone", but at the same time, both nights we've played he's had the same general don't care about anybody else attitude and I think that's what's bothering me more than anything specific.
_________________________
In the bag: Ebonite Total NV, Angular One, Tornado, Hustler 12
Highs: Game: 199 (Straight) 208 (Hook) | Series: 501
Average: 178 (unoffcial) 127 (league)

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#41892 - 02/23/07 12:39 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: lysaer]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
I don't recommend a lot of my methods to anyone, Tyveil. wink I threw that out there as a "last ditch effort" kind of thing. That's part of the reason why I'm so picky of who I select for teammates. I hate bowling with whiners, I hate bowling with people who don't take the game at least semi-seriously or don't have any respect for it, and I don't like any of my teammates to browbeat each other. Yes, I get visibly upset, but that's never at anyone buy myself. If anything, I try to be as supportive as possible. But I am one of those people who live on a "no s*** diet", and I don't take any of it from anyone. You are right in the fact that you should lead by example, but when push comes to shove, if there's no recourse other than to get ugly, then that's what needs to be done.

I had a teammate last year who was a total b****, and popped off at me one too many times, saying I was "slacking" and didn't care and that she would rather see me stay home than laugh at missing a spare (I started laughing at my misses to lighten myself up). I told her to get her head out of her behind and wipes the **** from her eyes because if she couldn't tell I wasn't serious, then the only thing she was looking at during league nights besides her book (yes, she read a book all night long) was her colon. I also told her that if she wasn't happy with the situation, she was more than welcome to pay up her last two weeks and quit. Yet, she chose to stay, much to my chagrin.

Not a week later we got into another argument about waiting on another team to show up (who were habitually late arrivers). She didn't want to, and fussed that she didn't want to get home too late. I told her she didn't have a choice, that I drove 45 minutes to get here and it's not any quicker going back and she'd be sawing logs before I pulled into my driveway.

But, before I fail to mention it, I did try to be diplomatic with her and to not be so gruff, but it didn't work. I got tired of her whining about the lane conditions, tired of her scoffing at my other two teammates, and sick of her general "I'm better than you" attitude. But, there too, she wasn't a co-worker, just someone I had to put up with once a week for 2 1/2 hours, which was one time too many and 2 hours and 29 minutes too long at that.
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"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#41895 - 02/23/07 01:00 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: Brian Longo]
Scott Gannon Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 967
A/S/L: 51/M/California
As team captain I have had to deal with a few minor situations. My one teammate at the beginning of the league would always be blaming the rest of us. Comments like "We needed that spare" or "We needed you to mark". A lot of times he would bury his head in his hands if we missed a spare. Like what Brian suggested we started giving it back to him but in a kind of lighthearted manner. We got him laughing and now he doesn't do it anymore.

If I were you I would just sit down with him and have an open and honest conversation and explain what is expected. I wouldn't go so far as to say if he doesn't like it hit the highway but just make it clear that you are not happy with his behavior and see how he resonds. If he continues then eventually you will have to issue him an ultimatium.



Edited by Scott Gannon (02/23/07 01:02 PM)
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Fall 2012-2013-League Average-181, HG-237, HS-624
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Fall 2013-14-League Average-178, HG-228, HS-631

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#41901 - 02/23/07 03:00 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: Brian Longo]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3398
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
I don't recommend a lot of my methods to anyone, Tyveil. wink


You sound just like me. I try to be diplomatic but I end up just getting even more [censored] cause it almost never works. I bowl with my best friend and his dad. My best friend only bowls every few weeks (he rotates with 2 other friends). When he bowls with his dad, they get into it all of the time. They are both so stubborn and neither will listen to each other. The son is a very good bowler. He would be second to me in average if he had enough games in. He will try to coach his dad but because of them being the same, his dad gets pissy and doesn't listen and normally bowls worse on the nights that his son is there. I have tried talking to my buddy to just leave his dad be while we are bowling but he never does. This is a situation that I don't have to deal with every week so as a team, we try to ignore the 2 of them when they have their weekly spats.
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HG: 300
HS: 826
Guru, IQ Tour Fusion, Phase, , Hy-Road, Tropical Heat Hybrid, Tropical Heat Solid, Pitch Blue

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#41902 - 02/23/07 03:41 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: General Pounder]
Show300 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 313
A/S/L: 33/M/Bellflower, CA
Well, if anyone's been reading my weekly rants, you know that I'm dealing with that situation right now. Much like Brian, I rarely deal with the people I bowl with outside of the bowling alley, maybe only 2-3 people I can hang with outside of bowling in a league with them or whatever.

But the 'drama queen' on my Tuesday league must be closely related to the woman Brian was talking about. She can barely throw two shots in a series that look the same, but she will give me the blues if I so much as flag a 7 pin. One night, earlier this season, we had it out because we were bowling the blind and I wanted to pace myself. I get in the sidepots and all and didn't want to finish in an hour and sit around for 2 if I shot anything waiting to get paid.

Well, she's b******* and complaining all night that we're bowling too slow. I gave my opinion on this in the league updates thread just yesterday...here it is again. You set off 3 hours (or so) a night to bowl a league on whatever given night, so whether you bowl the blind or not, it's the same 3 hours...what the heck is the rush? If we were bowling against another team you'd be there for 3 hours...I don't get it.

Anyway, I go front 8 last game and then she starts in again about getting the last two frames done so we can go home (my leadoff had stepped away to the bathroom). She decided to skip him and we (the rest of the team) said 'No, what's the rush?' Even her boyfriend (our 2nd bowler) was telling her to chill. My leadoff comes back bowls and then when I get on the approach in the 9th, she's still back there talking trash. So I can hear her talking about me and what I said to her (I told her to get away from the lanes with all that noise while I bowled) and subsequently I'm so focused on her that I drop one in the gutter...yep, 8 bagger, gutter. Then leave the big 4 on the spare because I'm so peeved.

I come right back in the 10th, with her still talking and leave the 6-7-10...I was too through. I told her boyfriend that she couldn't say anything to me for the rest of the season. I eventually apologized, and so did she...but it's not been the same since. She is still abrasive from time to time...even two weeks ago p****** me off because I missed a 7 pin that would have won a game for us and I'd been perfect on them for about 3 weeks. She had the audacity to start flailing her arms around and saying, 'OHMIGOD, I can't believe he missed that!!!' I didn't even flinch, just pointed at the scoreboard at her score...a big 98. 'Thanks for all YOUR help,' I told her and walked off...everybody on the pair got a kick out of that...and she was quite embarrassed. She offered another apology the following week, but I'm pretty much just trying to finish out the season and leave her alone...highly frustrating.

Here's the crazy part...she's not a good bowler, but has two 200+ avg bowlers on her team, no less (out of 3 in the whole league) and she won't even ask for help. And to boot, she's lefty, so I could really relate to/help her because I'm lefty. But she's burned so many bridges in the league and burned so many people bottoms with her attitiude, that she might be bowling a 103 average for a long time...unless she goes to another house where no one knows her and is willing to put up with her attitude.

Anyway, all that said, lysaer...do what you think is best for you and your roommate and your team.


Edited by Show300 (02/23/07 03:45 PM)
_________________________
And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and possess unlimited knowledge, and have faith which could remove mountains; and have not charity, I am nothing - 1 Corinthians 13:2

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#41904 - 02/23/07 03:54 PM Re: League team member courtesy question [Re: Show300]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
People like that just drag everyone else down, and it's not fair. I used to do that with my moping when I was bowling bad. I stopped doing that, for the most part. Once in awhile it rears its ugly head, but if I'm in that bad a mood, I will usually stay away from my team as much as possible as to not infect them. I usually tell them that I don't meant o be anti-social, I'd just rather go and clear my head and I'll be back in a little while. I still bowl in between walks; I don't up and walk out and leave my team high and dry, but I do take a walk around the bowling center, outside, etc. It calms me down.
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"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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