Okey Just wondering. This happen last night a bowler in the team we played against was bowling and threw a strike before we we could tell him there was pin missing the five pin on the rack he alreay released the ball. So does the strike count if we dont tell him before he release the ball or does he have to redo the frame?

Rule 8, A
When a dead ball is called, the delivery does not count and the correct pins must be respotted. The player is allowed to rebowl that delivery.

A ball will declared dead if any of the following occur:

After a delivery, attention is immediately called to the fact that one or more pins were missing from the setup.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So his strike should NOT have counted and he rebowled the frame, with the correct number of pins.

Erin

Erin,
Thanks so we were right correcting the score. Boy did he get mad and was a bad sport the whole night.

I always thought that was an obvious rule...guess not. Seems to me you have to have 10 pins standing before your first delivery.

He complained that he was not notified before the delivery that why it should count.

Doesn't matter as you can see from the rule.

Erin

He tried to get his friend watching to tell us that if he wasnt notified before he released the ball it was a strike. But i guess my team mate knew the rule and said it didnt count and correct the score. He just mummbled and cussed and bowl the frame again.

Doesn't any league officer carry a USBC rule book with them. This shouldn't have been an arguement.

I did something stupid last night. I went for another Soda. On my way back, I saw my team waving to me. It seems I was up. So, I quickly rushed back to the lanes, dropped off my soda, picked up my ball, and threw a strike. Great, 4 in a row. Then, I was told I bowled on the wrong alley. Stupid me.

So, I switched lanes and got another one. That rule, I knew. I guess your buddy would have argued, no one told him before his release.

Dennis,
Oh it was the other team not my buddy. But i was going to ask the league sectary one two pairs over to get a ruling if it was still going to argue but he decided to go ahead and bowl another frame.

It amazes me how some people get mad when they do something ignorant and someone calls them on it. All they need to do is glance at the rule book. I'm sure the center had at least one on hand, er, well, at least they should have one on hand, anyhow.

Just like Wednesday, which kind of falls back to another thread we had about bowling before league, when I was trying my new LH shoes before bowling. We normally bowl league on lanes 1-10, and I was "practicing" on lane 16, which a) isn't even in the realm of league lanes and b) wasn't even oiled (not like I cared - I just wanted to get used to sliding so I didn't bust my backside).

The guy who was working the desk (Chad) told me that I should make it quick so, we'll call him "Sam" (only to protect the ignorant), doesn't catch me bowling because "Sam" seems to think that nobody's allowed to practice within 2 hours of league. I told Chad that there's no rule against me bowling before league except that I can't practice on the lanes I'm supposed to be on (yes, it's a league rule), and that if he has a problem with it, that's just too bad. He can fight it all he wants, but he'll lose the argument.

So, the resident "ignorant idiot" (as I call him) comes in, sees me bowling on lane 16, and promptly walks to the desk to complain, saying that I should not be bowling within two hours of league. Chad was about to relay to "Sam" what I told him, but instead the husband of the league secretary chimed in, in a rather hostile tone, the same thing I told Chad. "Sam" wasn't pleased, and tried to argue against it, but the gentleman offered to show "Sam" the league rules. "Sam" declined the offer.

Mind you, "Sam" is a new bowler, but one of those "know-it-all" types, and a massive pain in the backside for everyone (chronic complainer). He even thinks that he knows more than I do about ball drilling and was trying to explain his new ball to me (it was a hilarious one-sided conversation to say the least). After league was done, "Sam" was outside having a smoke and I told him that I was polite enough to not bowl on his pair, at least, but I could've. I said that to prove a point.

Oh yeah, and I've also had to educate "Sam" a few times about fouls and dead balls, much to his dismay (he once verbally accosted me because I called a foul on him and the scorer didn't register it - sometimes happens with our system). I've gone as far as getting the rule book out and showing him the rules, and that he should try reading it before he starts getting all huffy in return. If he wasn't such a pain, I probably would be nice, but with certain people, there's no recourse other than being short and snide with them, especially ignorant ones such as "Sam".

We did have an incident. Really, it was a discussion involving a bowler on my team, Mike. Mike has been having a bad year. At 61, he lost his job. Took another lower position, and was let go. He now is cutting cold cuts in the local grocery store afternoons and nights, he cleans up the deli area. Far from his training and expertise.

His bowling has suffered also. He is about 15 pins under average, and you can see, he is not a happy camper.

Well, 2 weeks ago, Mike was bowling well for the first time in weeks. He was on a string when he rolled a wide shot, but the ball came back hitting light. Pins were splashing on the deck, except the 4. As the rack came down, the 4 fell. Our opponents called that the rack knocked it down. Mike stood against them. One said it did, Mike said it didn't. The president made the ruling that the opponent had the right to reset the pin. Right or wrong, it ruined Mike's night. I didn't see it, so I couldn't discuss. But, I felt sorry for Mike. The only thing in his life right now that could go right is bowling. And, that went against him.

OK, so we had to get the rule book out last night and it was MY fault.

Ball sticks to my thumb and I and the ball go across the foul line barely staying upright. Ball eventually gets launched about 6' down the lane in the gutter. I think it hit the gutter upon landing. Anyway, it travels sssslllloooowwwwly down the gutter stopping before the pin deck and sweep. It never went off the lane, never touched the pins or pin deck. Dead Ball, but was it a foul?

Yep, we counted it as a foul and reset the machine for the second rack. I spared and the game moved on.

Erin

I've been in that spot, both as the bowler and as the "caller". Really, it depends on the type of league and the bowlers on the opposing team. 99% of the time, I give the bowler the benefit of the doubt. The 1% is the person, or team, that I can't stand for whatever reason (with me, it varies, but usually it's the bowler or team that either is too raucous or just like my post above). I don't care what kind of league it is (competitive or casual), if it's too close to call, I give it to the bowler. If it's obvious, then it has to be called.

Contrary to some people's beliefs, I really do give people the benefit of the doubt. If I don't get it in return, though, you can rest assured I don't forget about it. In your instance, Dennis, had I been your opponent, I probably would've given the strike to your teammate.