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#40495 - 02/07/07 01:45 PM Self Doubt Setting In
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Hi Everyone. I am hoping I have got some of the physical part of my game that has caused my recent slump figured out but I need some help more on the mental part of my game.

As many of you know I took an extended time off from bowling for the last 14 years. I came back last summer in a no-tap league and am now in the 20th week of the Winter league.

This is the first rough patch I have hit since coming back and to be honest, I know i used to have slumps and rough periods but I really do not remember how I dealt with them.

I have always been very confident and competetive and that is part of what drives me. I have generally been proud of how during this 6 week period even if I have a bad game I have been able to pull myself up and wind up with a decent series. One night I even topped my high game with 236 after starting off horrible. Two weeks ago when I got a 118 in the second game I pulled myself together and got a 191.

Last week for the 2nd time in 3 weeks I started out with 4 out of the first 5 frames open. It was even worse this time because at least the other time I was getting good pocket hits. I still pulled out a 145 after having 49 in the 5th but I think all the having to fight back the last month had wore me out. I couldn't even get a game above my average and finished with a 465 series, tied for my low for the year which I had got way back in the 3rd week.

This has got me doubting myself big time. I was so excited last week and was sure I was going to snap out of my slump and then when I opened in 4 of the first 5 I was sitting there stunned again just thinking about how hard I was going to have to work to just get to a halfway decent series. Then you have your teammates, although they have good intentions, asking "What's wrong with you?" making it even worse.

Anyone who has any tips or suggestions on how to deal with this I would appreciate it because self doubt is setting in and while every week so far I have looked forward to bowling in many ways I am dreading tomorrow night. I know I am a fighter so I am sure I will work my way through this but any tips would sure help me.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

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#40498 - 02/07/07 01:53 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1277
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
The best thing I can say to you, Scott, is go to the lanes without expectations. Don't expect to beat your low series. Don't expect to beat your high series. Just walk in the door, put your ball on the rack, put your shoes on, and go through your usual habits. Let your body take control of the game and shut your mind off. Only use it when you have to make adjustments. Once you push away the ball tune yourself out and let your body make the shot for you.

Sometimes if you go in with an "I don't give a rat's [censored]" attitude you usually come out better. You give up thinking and let your body take over. When I shot my 800 I can tell you I wasn't thinking about anything. My body took over and all I had to do was be there. Years of practice funneled itself into one night; one very good night. The same can happen to you if you just tell your mind to take a hike.

Honestly, that's about the only way you're going to beat your slump is to stop thinking about it. Give it a try and see what happens. It's not easy, and even the most optimistic of people begin to wonder, but there's an end in sight. You'll come out of it a better bowler.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#40502 - 02/07/07 02:11 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brian Longo]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Thanks Brian. I am going to give it my best shot.

You are right about not thinking about it but like you said that can be very hard. When I almost shot a 600 series i wasn't even thinking about it. I have been thinking about how I almost did it and I haven't come close since.

_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40522 - 02/07/07 03:58 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
Scott, this is why we bowl. To overcome the bad times.

There was a period last summer for me where I couldn't hit 200 (I booked 210 last year). I just relaxed and went out and let my body do what I knew it could and more importantly, I didn't look at the scoreboard, I just threw each ball the best I could, and, guess what, the 200s came back. This was the quickest recovery from a slump I have ever had.

Once I decided to let my body do what it had been doing correctly for the last 33 weeks (winter league), my game came back and my confidence grew. I ended up averaging 211 in that league. It was frustrating when it started and I was definitely intimidated by the other bowlers (it was a one man team league with 39 bowlers on it and several of the bowlers were averaging in the 240s). I started the league out with a 182 avg after 3 weeks, arghhh.... But, like I said, I finally let myself go and began to believe in myself (even though I had no reason to based on how I was bowling) and threw the best ball I could each frame and... it was like magic, slump gone.

I am not saying that yours will work this way, but you need to relax, pick up your spares and make the adjustments that got you to where you were and where you expect to be.

Mike
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#40536 - 02/07/07 05:20 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: MrBowler]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
I think because everything was going so well is the biggest reason why this is hitting me hard.

I had started at 162 and steadily built my average up to 174 in 14 weeks. It seemed so easy but I knew in my mind there would be struggles as just about everyone has off weeks.

You are right, you have to overcome bad times to get better.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40542 - 02/07/07 06:32 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Brandon510 Offline
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1752
A/S/L: 28/Male/California
Scott,
Dont Dread tommorrow. DOnt go down there with negitive out look. In my 3 month slump i had some real bad series and some series to too keep my average. There one thing that someone told me is if you make a bad shot dont dwell on it. Take each frame as it is your first frame. Dont look at the scoreboard sometime it can make things worse cause you think too much i need a strike to get my average and so forth.

Just go in there with postivie outlook, dont look at score board, and relax and take brian and mike advise and let your body take over. I remeber once i came out of slump everything was relaxed i was enjoying the game and not even looking at the score.
_________________________
ball .......................Brandon
BowlSk: Stats
Fall/Winter 2008-2009: OUR GANG

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#40547 - 02/07/07 06:47 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3223
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Scott, When I quit, 27 years ago, I averaged 215 on wooden lanes with a rubber ball. When I came back, nothing I owned even worked on synthetic lanes. Timing, speed, coordination, everything physical didn't work. I can only visualize what I looked like. It certainly would not have been what I expected. I struggled through a disaster of a year to a 175 average, and was totally dissatisfied with the outcome and myself.

I almost quit right there, and said to myself that bowling is over. I had tried, and it didn't work. But, I did something right at the end of the year that caused me to rethink. I had just spent $200 bucks for a new ball. And, being the cheap SOB that I am, I wanted my money's worth.

So, I made a decision that if I was going to go through with this bowling thing, I couldn't do it alone. I found a Coach (after going thru 3) that listened and was interested enough in me to give me time. He was very honest with me, and said right up front, he saw previous training in what I was attempting to do, But, how I was going about trying to regain it would do nothing to help. He asked what my objective was in bowling, and I told him to get back to where I used to be, 215. He said, it would take work, dedication and a lot of practice, and asked if I was willing to make the committment. It was then that I decided that I was going to do it. Realizing that neither he nor I were myracle men.

So, I gave myself 3 years. Last year was full of ups and downs. Just what you are going through. But, I was lucky. I had a couple of teammates who were very supportive and patient. I would take a lesson, and screw myself up for a week or so. But then, something would work. And this went on for the entire year. Ups and Downs, until I had a semblance of what I was supposed to be doing. Somehow, about 2/3 through the year I bowled a 300 in practice, and followed up with a 298 in league. That hooked me, because I CAN do it. The odd thing about my 298 in league was that it came immediately after one of the most discouraging and ugly 138 games I ever shot. In fact, I didn't shoot 600 with that 298. But, that one game told me there was hope. I did finish over 190, so there was improvement.

This year, I started with 2, 440 series, and had a 147 average after 3 weeks. What happened? I took a few more lessons, got some encouragement, and am now over 200 in 2 leagues, and 195 in the league I started so badly in.

I have one more year in my 3 year committment. I have every reason that I will make my goal. But the effort that goes into doing this is only worth it to me. Why, because I set a goal, and I work til I get there. And you know what? Even if I don't make that 215 again, I still am going to bowl. Because I proved I can overcome the pitfalls, and the horrible games and come back next week and shine.

If I had bowled another 138 after the first, I would have had second thoughts. But, just as you bowled a 236 after a bad game, both of us know we can do it.

It's like the golfer said to me, It's that 1 shot out of 100 that makes you come back. Yep, it's that one double, or difficult spare or split that makes me come back. And, you know, maybe I didn't get that double. I will still come back next week and get it.

You can't have a good week unless you have had a bad one.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#40551 - 02/07/07 07:22 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Dennis Michael]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Thanks Dennis.

I think sometimes I need to realize I have probably overachieved in a lot of ways. Not having picked up a bowling ball in 12 years and getting very little practice and still going out bowling 3 games once a week and carrying a 172 average is pretty decent. I am probably "coming back down to earth" in a sense. Even when I stopped bowling in 1992 I was on two leagues and only carrying a 183 and 187 average.

Thanks to you and everyone here I realize that improving and then slipping back some is natural and then once I get past it I will come back stronger because I will have learned from the experience.

I am glad you let me know about your goals because I do need to sit down and figure out what my goals are. If I cannot make a more of a committment I will have to learn to accept my bowling at about the level it is. If I want to improve and get to the level you are working towards like you said I will need a lot of practice and a coach.

Either way I am very happy I have rediscovered bowling and I really do enjoy it. I will never take off that long again just because I move, even if it means having to do down and get on a team that just needs another person.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40555 - 02/07/07 09:25 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
MADDOG` Offline
Bracket Donator

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 124
A/S/L: Oregon
Brian makes some very good points. I used to think about bowling all day prior to that evening's leagues. I'd think about what I'd do, how I'd deliver the ball, imagine the line to the pocket, etc...and even fantasize (down, down there...not that kind of fantasy! <G>) about high scores. Invariably, I'd get impatient too early when things weren't how I imagined it would be. Too abrupt with changes, too large of a speed, rotation, or mark change followed by a ball change, followed by...well, you get my point.

I've learned to not think about it too much, whether while at the alley or before I even get there. When I picked up regular league bowling again in 1999 after a 14 year layoff, I averaged around the low 150's. Seven years later I've improved my average by 50 pins, have learned soooo much more about the mechanics of bowling, have learned to read lane conditions and have developed the mental skills necessary that allow me to be aware of what I am doing without obsessing over it.

Let it flow. Be easy. Relax.

And above all, despite a competitive nature, I have fun.

Good luck and give us an update on how things progress.

Failing all that, a psychiatrist may be able to help. <G> Just kidding...just kidding.
_________________________
--Michael--

In The Bag:
Storm XTreme
Columbia 300 Messenger Titanium
Columbia 300 ActionMax

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#40558 - 02/07/07 10:33 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: MADDOG`]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1804
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
I feel your pain. For the last couple of months, I've been throwing the ball so bad that I haven't even wanted to bowl. My patients are so short because things are going so wrong, that I honestly want to walk out of the center while I'm bowling.

Last night started out the same way any my blood started to boil again. I've had to repeatidly tell myself that I just don't care what I shoot. It could be 99 and I just don't care. Otherwise, honestly, I think I'd scream at the top of my lungs and break things.

Now obviously I can't do that, so I've really dreaded bowling. And on top of that I've had absolutely no desire to practice because I'm just so fed up.

But as luck would have it, I think I fixed some things last night. I'm not 100%, but I feel like I'm at least in the ballpark now.

I have the benifit of going through things like this before, and I know that you always come out the other side. And when you do, you're usually better off because when you finally do fix what was wrong, you're not likely to forget it. Well, at least for a while. smile

You'll get through it and you'll be better off for it. If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger, right? wink

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#40559 - 02/07/07 10:37 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Lefty]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1804
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
And to put things in perspective, your low series is only about 20 pins a game lower than your average. That's not absolutely awfull.

If you keep doing that for a month or more, then that's a slump. A night or two isn't much to worry about smile

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#40580 - 02/08/07 10:38 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Lefty]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
I remember a time about a year ago when I hit a slump and began to think that I would never throw a 200 again. I was consistently in the 180s and 190s and never seemed to get above 200. My average was in the 180s and I thought that maybe I had passed my prime and would not be able to average 200 again.

Here I am a year later and I can tell you that I still average over 200 in all of my leagues. Moral of the story: Hang in there, it will end and things will get better.

One other thought:
When I met my ex-wife, she was averaging 126. I worked with her in within 3 years she was averaging in the high 170s, low 180s. But as you know it is hard to raise your average the higher it gets and she got pretty frustrated with the fact that her average wouldn't continue to climb like it had for the previous 3 years. She still averages in the high 170s (when she bowls), and still has a hard time with the fact that she hasn't improved.

Sidenote: My ex bowled one league a week and never practiced, now she doesn't bowl much and she has resigned herself to bowling for the social aspect if she bowls at all (that was always her intention anyway, if you ask me).
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#40582 - 02/08/07 11:03 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: MrBowler]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3223
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Scott, read these posts. We've all been there. We all have plateaued. We all have been in slumps. You're not alone.

But, one thing for sure, we ALL love bowling. Even you.

PS: I went back and read some of your previous posts. You have talked about the anchor that had confidence problems. You have talked about teammates who don't care. You have talked about tirades, abuse and language. If these teammates are not related to you, maybe you should consider changing teams?
It is really fun when you all get along.
_________________________
Storm - Shift 16# Medium Length
Legends - Conqueror 16# Heavy arc
Brunswick - Scorchin Inferno 16#, Med-Heavy oil
Legends - Terminator 16# Heavy length
Legends - BigRBang 16# Medium Arc

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#40591 - 02/08/07 11:40 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Dennis Michael]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Thanks Everyone.

Like I said this is my first slump since coming back but like Lefty said it isn't that bad when you put it in perspective. Thanks to all of you I will not be uptight tonight. I will just roll with the flow and know even if it doesn' work out tonight better times will be ahead.

Dennis actually the team has been good recently. Since we switched anchors my one teammate who had been a problem has pretty much calmed down and almost all of his negativity is gone. He has had a few issues but we have dealt with them and moved on.

The team has been helpful in carrying me during this slump also. For some odd reason when I am struggling they do really well and when I do really well they are somewhat off. In some ways I may be still adjusting to the anchor position also. There have been many times when the game is already well in hand or my teammates are doing well and I tend to ease up, not intentionally but it just seems to happen. I never really felt that way when I led off because my feeling was I always had to do my best just in case.

I am sure now I will get past this but I have to be patient and not worry about it because from what everyone has said that will just make it worse. I have no expectations for tonight, just to go, bowl and see how it all comes out.



Edited by Scott Gannon (02/08/07 01:50 PM)
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40626 - 02/08/07 04:12 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
That's the right attitude!

It sounds like you are on a good team, now. When you are having a bad game and your teammates can hold you up and vice-versa, that is a good team (from a points standpoint). It also sounds like you have found a lineup that works for you guys. Congratulations!

Here's to hoping that the slump goes away quickly.

Mike
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#40630 - 02/08/07 04:26 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: MrBowler]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Thanks Mike.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40677 - 02/09/07 08:31 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 2125
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Scott, the best advice I can give you is to go and take lessons from a good coach, if you need help finding one, pm me.

Slumps happen to everyone at every level. It is usually something fundamental that you are either not doing or over doing.

Another factor in low scoring is lack of knowledge in what adjustments to make at which time, and letting this lack of knowledge frustrate you which makes you not able to concentrate.

For instance, let's say for the sake of this example your physical game is fine and you are making good shots, but the splits keep coming and adjusting your angle isn't helping, but you never think to go to a duller ball and throw it harder because you have been taught that dull balls hook more.

There are many factors that go into bowling well, in order to bowl well you have to have the right:

1. Ball in your hand for the lane condition.

2. Speed too much the ball skids too far not enough the ball hooks early.

3. Angle, the ball has to be let go at the proper angle to the target to enable it to recover in the pocket.

4. Release, how you release the ball can make the wrong ball work or the right ball not work.

Knowing which of these to use at which time is what you need to learn to do if you want to score well.

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#40686 - 02/09/07 10:42 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Mkirchie Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 201
A/S/L: 28/M/New Jersey
As someone who was like this about a week ago, I know how you are feeling. I agree about just letting it go and let your body take over. I'd been overthinking a lot of stuff that was throwing me off a bit, along with a lack of focus. Last week, I just gave myself tunnel vision on my target. I was looser, smoother, and more at balance at the line that I'd been in a long time because I wasn't thinking about anything else in my approach. Also, the 668 I shot was nice, but I was more happy that I didn't miss the pocket for 2 and a half games. I eventually missed because I missed the transition of the lane and when through the head pin.

Good teammates are a great help. My doubles team won our league over the summer and when one bowled bad, the other bowled good. One week, I shot a 151 and my teammate put up a 300 and we won that game. I thanked him a bit. The last week he struggled and I averaged 230 for the 4 games to lock it up. It's amazing how things work out sometimes.

Mark


Edited by Mkirchie (02/09/07 10:43 AM)
_________________________
16# Time Zone (Very heavy oil, spares)
16# Petraglia Pro-Am Ball (Heavy oil, spares)
16# Critical Mass (Heavy-medium oil, spares)
16# Control Zone (Medium oil, spares)
(Hey, I like old stuff!)
HG-300(5)
HS-776
Current Avg-216

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#40694 - 02/09/07 11:23 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Mkirchie]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
ALthough last night was somewhat the same I feel much better. Again I struggled badly in the first game but then I finally got back to my natural rhythm and found out my biggest problem was not following through all the way on my shots.

I shot a 135 then a 187 and 193 to finish with a 515, right at my average. Better yet I came through with a double and 9 in the first game to shut out the other team and spared on a 10 pin and got a strike to close out the 2nd game. We won all 4 and are now 46-38 and bowl the team that is currently in first next week.

It almost felt like when I came through in the clutch in the first game even though I was back in the same rut and having a really bad game I realized I still had that fire in me and that it would all work out. From that point on I was relaxed and my natural instincts took over and I stopped pressing so much and more importantly follwing through all the way.

_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40700 - 02/09/07 11:38 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
Sounds like problem solved... Congratulations. Just stay relaxed and have fun!
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#40703 - 02/09/07 11:59 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: MrBowler]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1277
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Scott, I feel ya. I did the same thing Wednesday. Even though I'm learning left-handed and nowheres near my right-handed self in terms of scoring potential, I was a little "doubtful" myself Wednesday night. I had just shot my first 500 lefty Tuesday night, and Wednesday I started with a 137 (only 12 pins under average, but a bit of a letdown after a 500 the previous night) which, I felt, crushed my hopes for a repeat 500. "Oh well" I thought to myself. Can't have them every night, not yet at least. My problem was I wasn't fluid. I was trying to guide the ball instead of letting it roll. All those things I've been telling myself NOT to do. I let my mind get in the way. I had to put an end to it.

I regrouped after 2 bad frames to start the second (gave myself a good verbal kick in the behind) and just concentrated on one thing - staying firm through the ball. If I do that, I roll the ball well I've found out. Well, I did. I finished the second game with a 188 (starting with 18 in the second) only missing the 7 pin in the 10th to potentially keep me from a 200. Third game, I started with a "dump strike" (ball fell off my hand and just tumbled to the pocket) and made my spares - lots of them. In fact, from the 2nd frame to the 8th frame, I had one strike, the rest were spares.

Getting to the 9th frame, I was still focusing on my hand because I didn't want the thoughts of a first 200, another 500 or a clean game creep into my head and blow all of them at once. The result? A brooklyn strike. Ok, not what I was looking for, but I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Now, only one mark for a clean game. I struck out for a 212 (all 3 in the 10th in the 1-2). First 200, first clean game, second 500 and a new high of 537 all in one night. I amazed even myself. I let my body take control while only trying to realize one thing and it didn't fail me, and, in fact, beat the living snot out of my expectations. The next time I might have to focus on something entirely different, but I'm just going to let my body take control of the ball and enjoy the results; good or bad.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#40711 - 02/09/07 02:21 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brian Longo]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Brian,

First of all let me congratualte you on how far you have come in such a short amount of time bowling left-handed. What you have accomplished is really amazing.

I fully understand the problem you had the first game because it is the same exact problem I have struggled with for weeks. This week was different because I knew what the problem was but was still doing it. Like you, I had to put an end to it.

When I was sitting at 106 in the 9th frame of that first game it was the closest I have ever been to losing my temper. I wanted to kick or hit something but then I just sat down and thought I cannot do any worse by just throwing the ball and trusting it so give it a shot. Bingo, 3 solid pocket hits for a double a 9.

Like you I concentrated on just rolling the ball and following through all the way on the shot. What a difference in accuracy and ball reaction. It was still a learning experience the rest of the way and several times the rest of the way I didn't get off the shot I should have but I rather easily improved 50 to 60 pins over that first game.

Funny I still do not know what got me to steering the ball in the first place. I am assuming when I hit a rough patch I tried to overcompensate by steering for accuracy and just picked it up that way. At least now I know I need to not fall back into that habit.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

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#40716 - 02/09/07 03:07 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1277
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Thanks, Scott. I know not every week will be a 30+ pin over night, all I'm looking for is shot consistency. I'm still learning my body, but it's getting more in step with my shot visualizations. The scores will be proof of any improvement.

On to the meat of my post:

If you've ever played baseball, and specifically, have ever pitched, there is a strong similarity between baseball and bowling in the sense of delivery. I used to pitch, so that's why I relate the two at times.

In baseball, you either "throw" the ball, or you "aim" or "fit" the ball. Throwing the ball is good, aiming or fitting the ball isn't. When I used to pitch, I'd catch myself trying to "fit" my fastballs, curve ball or slider by hitters. When I did that, I was all over the place, and the more I missed, the madder I got, and the more I tried to fit the ball (and thus a continuous cycle). When I "threw" those pitches, I was able to hit my spots (I lived on the corners a la Tom Glavine). When I took my brain and extra muscle out of the pitch, my speed was better and my accuracy was better. I let my body, specifically my hips, legs, and normal arm muscles make the pitch instead of forcing the pitch.

Same with bowling. Once you start "fitting/aiming" the ball, you're going to be all over the place. If you ignore the ball path, and focus on a part of your delivery that's a small part of that delivery, everything works and your ball path will work itself out. It's 99% mental. You don't all of the sudden forget how to bowl, you just forget how to forget.

I think a great deal of what causes these problems is the fact that there's so much small stuff going on that, when everything is going well, we're not paying attention to all of those "little things" and we focus on the results because we're not thinking about the process to get those results. Then, when suddenly those results aren't there, we focus harder on the results thinking that'll snap us out of it instead of focusing on those parts that get us the results. We force the ball, we guide the ball, we think it's this or that instead of allowing our bodies to "play the game" and let our minds "manage the game".

You cannot "manage the game" and "play the game" at the same time. There's too much going on for that to be a great working solution. You have to trust that your body will make the right movements (play the game) and you have to trust your mind to make adjustments for what your body is doing (manage the game). Our minds can't throw the ball, but when they try to, the results are less than desirable.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#40719 - 02/09/07 03:39 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brian Longo]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
Wow! That hits the nail on the head! Good thoughts Brian.

Mike
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#40720 - 02/09/07 03:43 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brian Longo]
Lefty Online   content
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1804
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Well I think I'm finally turning the corner as well. the first game last night I started out making the same kinds of bad shots again and I really felt fed up. Especially since I thought I had aleady turned the corner. Towards the end of the first game, I got things smoothed out a little and finished with a 167. This is on a condition that's a little easier than the PBA patterns. PBA is 3:1, this is 4:1. Anyway, the next game I shot 254 with an open and finished off with a 218.

I also have to thank the people here for asking the questions that they do because a few questions that I've answered got me to thinking about what I've been doing and have helped me to work through this.

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#40726 - 02/09/07 04:40 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Lefty]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
The people here are great and it is so good to have a forum board like this. It is great to be able to get good advice, get words of encouragement when things are going bad and share your accomplishments with other bowlers.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40729 - 02/09/07 05:10 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1277
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
I agree, Lefty. Sometimes when you're answering questions, you think, "gee, maybe that's what I'm doing" or "maybe I need to try what I told so-and-so to try". It brings on a whole new meaning to "listen to your own advice". Part of what helped me become a better bowler was to become a coach. I mention something to someone and then I think to myself, "hey, that's what I might be doing wrong, too". Just like when I talk about my "nightly trials" bowling left-handed in the other thread - it helps me think about and potentially recognize some weak points so I can work on them later.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

Top
#40730 - 02/09/07 05:38 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brian Longo]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
The support is so helpful too. When I was getting down last night I thought about all the advice that had been given and all the people who told me to hang in there. That helped me get through.

_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#40875 - 02/12/07 02:09 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
MrBowler Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 317
A/S/L: CA, USA
That's what we're all here for. From both sides of the fence, encouraging and receiving encouragement.

I do the same thing that Brian talks about above. As I write and reread my posts, I think, "Wow, maybe I should try taking my own advice!"... LOL
_________________________
Keep bowling and having fun!

For everything bowling, see http://www.BowlersEverything.com

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#41157 - 02/15/07 10:08 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
lou Offline
Junior

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 21
A/S/L: 51/m/long island ny
What has helped me when I'm in a slump is to work on my spare game. Once I get that down I lose the fear of shooting/leaving certain spares and don't push as hard to get strikes which frees up the arm swing and the brain. Hope this helps
_________________________
Quitters never win, Winners never quit!

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#41170 - 02/15/07 12:12 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: lou]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
I think if I can just throw the ball and follow through I will be allright tonight. It wa strange last week. I knew what I had to do but in the first game my mind wouldn't let me. The first game lately I seem try to steer rather than roll the ball. Once I start rolling, I start making my spares, getting more strikes, getting better mix on the ball.

The one thing I am going to remember tonight is "trust is a must or you game is a bust". Just trust it, roll it, follow through, and then adjust my spots accordingly. No more steering.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#41177 - 02/15/07 01:23 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Show300 Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 321
A/S/L: 33/M/Bellflower, CA
I feel you Scott...it's amazing how one errant ball can get into you head and have you doing things you know you shouldn't be, i.e. steering the ball, not being aggressive, etc. I just talked about that in my post in the 'League Updates' thread.

I knew the lanes were reverse blocked (oiled from 5-6 board out to the rail), yet I kept pushing my ball out there and watching it skid. Then I wanted to steer it out of the oil and went through the nose a couple of times...anyway, led to a 189-177 first two games. I finally listened to myself and made a 2 and 2 move inside (to my right) and promptly went 249.

Ugly night mentally, didn't trust myself to make that move earlier. Didn't want to upset my comfort zone...well, nothing is comfortable about shooting 177 on a 205 average.

Like you said, 'Trust is a must..." Especially in bowling. Without confidence and trust in your abilities, it's hard to succeed in this game.
_________________________
And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and possess unlimited knowledge, and have faith which could remove mountains; and have not charity, I am nothing - 1 Corinthians 13:2

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#41180 - 02/15/07 02:02 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Show300]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
I feel you on the comfort zone Show. I think a lot of what happened to me too was when I moved from my comfort zone because of like you said, the ball skidding, I then tried to steer it because I didn't trust it.

Being I had been away from the game for 14 years for several weeks I did not know what the problem was. I had been steadily getting better every week up until about Week 14 and that is when this started. By the second game I would go back to rolling and trusting the ball, mainly out of frustration from sterring it but really didn't know what was causing it.

Last week was the first week I really knew going in what the problem was and wouldn't you know it, even though I knew what I was doing I was stil doing it. It was like my subconsicious mind was taking over and that coupled with my irritional fear of tanking in the first game for 5 out of the last 6 weeks and I was having a lousy game again.

I have had a lot of ugly nights mentally lately so tonight I am going to remember roll it and follow through. The good thing about a slump like I am in is after awhile there is no where to go but up.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#41183 - 02/15/07 02:41 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Tim Gerard Online   content
Legend

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
Thats the spirit Scott,
Just slow your feet down, check your mark , and roll and follow through. Thats is exactly what I had to do to get out of my slump. Its pretty much, go back to the basics, and DON'T over think every little thing. Your on the right Track....go knock them down. Who knows....tonight may be the night you reach one of your goals....ya never know.
_________________________
Formerly Eraser

In the bag...all 15#

Lane Masters Sting
Roto Grip Mystic
Roto Grip Saturn
Ebonite Maxim

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#41185 - 02/15/07 03:07 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Tim Gerard]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
I hope so. It is true, you never know what can happen on any given night.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#41192 - 02/15/07 04:28 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
beachbuzzard Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 3
A/S/L: New Jersey
I am new to this forum, but wanted to add thoughts on this subject.

First of all, Scott, have you ever played fantasy golf? I played fantasy golf with a Scott Gannon and wondered if it was you.

Anyway, concerning this subject, I have now after 25 years of bowling finally gotten to the point where I don't get flustered much at the line. However, slumps still do happen. Why? I'm not always sure. I don't come bowling with predetermined thoughts anymore, but I think it's mostly just physical for me. I think I'm good at repeating my shots, but repeating isn't always good if you're doing something wrong. And it seems when I start doing something wrong, I'll hang onto that bad habit for a while until I figure out what it is I'm messing up on.

I just never feel much doubt anymore, even if in a slump. I know I can bowl, so its just a matter of continuing to search for answers. The one thing that always seems to help? Slow down and relax. Getting in a slump can cause you to squeeze the ball and speed the feet. Both are very bad for the scores!

Good luck!!!
_________________________
Current Avg. 212; High Game 300 (4 times); High Series 824.

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#41265 - 02/16/07 06:35 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: beachbuzzard]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
I am not the Scott Gannon that played Fantasy Golf. I have never played but it sounds interesting.

Well my slump is continuing to some degree. Last night I averaged 161 shooting a 484, another bad first game 136, then a 172 and 176. If not for a couple bad splits at the end of the last game I would have got a 200.

The good news is I am not really that upset about it as I have been. In the first game it is about adjusting to the fact that the lanes have quite a bit of oil on them and I am really struggling on that. The first game I am not geting good pocket hits and then chop a lot of the spares.

My mind will get straight in time and meanwhile I am not going to let it get to me and in honesty I am doing "fairly" well all things considered (First year bolwing after 14 years off, Only being able to bowl once a week on league night).

_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#41313 - 02/17/07 11:31 AM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Brandon510 Offline
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1752
A/S/L: 28/Male/California
Originally Posted By: Scott Gannon

The good news is I am not really that upset about it as I have been. In the first game it is about adjusting to the fact that the lanes have quite a bit of oil on them and I am really struggling on that. The first game I am not geting good pocket hits and then chop a lot of the spares.


Scott,
Were in the Same boat when it comes to adjusting. I either dont move enough and change balls to quickly. Or Move to much and dont change ball at the right time.

Thats bowling. Keep it up eventually your get your brake out week. Last two week i plateau bowled just good enough to keep my average from going down. But not good enough for it go up.

Your like me took some major time off but aint bad for just comming back after a big lay off we basically had to relearn some part of the game.


Edited by Brandon510 (02/17/07 11:35 AM)
_________________________
ball .......................Brandon
BowlSk: Stats
Fall/Winter 2008-2009: OUR GANG

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#41319 - 02/17/07 12:45 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Brandon510]
Scott Gannon Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 658
A/S/L: 47/M/California
Thanks for the support Brandon. It is good to have someone like you who is coming back from a long layoff because we are going through a lot of the same things. If you look at our season stats our averages are the same and high game just about the same. I would love to get a 661 series like you did though. That is something I can work towards.
_________________________
Columbia U-Turn (June 2006-January 2008)
HG: 236
HS: 593

Hammer Black Widow (February 2008-Now)
HG: 246
HS: 607

Fall 2007-2008 League Avg- 164
Summer League 2008 Average - 164
Fall 2008-2009 League Avg- 180

Top
#41325 - 02/17/07 02:06 PM Re: Self Doubt Setting In [Re: Scott Gannon]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3223
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Scott, when you least expect it, and when you don't pressure yourself is when it will happen. Every night I enter the Center thinking I am going to bowl 300. Of course, it has not happened this year. But, self assurance and determination is what you need. If yo