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#36821 - 12/16/06 12:51 AM Pin Position
Brandon510 Offline
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1990
A/S/L: 28/Male/California/Philippines
Okey not expert on drilling and ball layouts. But someone where a line i think i read or heard someone suggesting to get ball was a 3-4 pin position. Well i recieved xmas gift from my brother a new ball and was looking on the box it noted a 1-2 pin postion and a 4oz top weight. What is the difference 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 pin postion. Is one better than the other? Does it make a difference in ball reaction?
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ball .......................Brandon
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#36823 - 12/16/06 08:26 AM Re: Pin Position [Re: Brandon510]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
The top weight will usually make more of a difference than the pin distance. The more top weight the ball has, the more "lope" it'll have down the lane because there's more weight towards the cover. It's not much of a difference; maybe 2-4 feet. But if you throw a faster ball (which I think I remember you saying you do), it might be a hinderance.

Pin distances do make a difference as well as a shorter pin out will cause the ball to retain its axis rotation longer, thereby giving you more of a skid/snap reaction. This is because of the CG placement. If you place the CG more towards your fingers, you have more weight in the finger hemisphere, and closer to the pin, which delays the hook. Conversely, with a larger pin out, if you place the CG more in the thumb hemispehere, you get a more gradual, smoother hook because the CG is further away from the pin.

This ball may or may not work out for you depending on many factors. If your brother bought the ball at the Pro Shop you normally go to, let them check it out. The best thing you can do is have the Pro Shop person there examine all of your equipment and see if it'll fill a hole in your arsenal. If they know how you bowl, it won't take that long. However, if they don't know how you bowl, roll a game for them to see your style, speed, and release so they can determine if this ball is right for you or not. Some shops are nice enough that you can swap the same ball for one that has a pin out and top weight more suitable for your game because it won't cost them a dime.

**If you want a little more in-depth explanation about pin distance and top weight, check out this post I made last month.
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"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

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#36828 - 12/16/06 01:58 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: Brian Longo]
Brandon510 Offline
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1990
A/S/L: 28/Male/California/Philippines
Wow! Thanks So Much Brian. Well he bought it online since he is in Texas and Im In California. But i bring it to my local Pro Shop who know how i bowl and has drilled all my equipement for me.

Thanks Again!
_________________________
Current Arsenal:
LM Terminator - Roto Grip Cell - Roto Grip Illision - - Storm Team Spare Ball
ball .......................Brandon
BowlSk: Stats


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#37203 - 12/24/06 02:18 AM Re: Pin Position [Re: Brandon510]
Triumph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 91
A/S/L: 38/M/Wa
I just picked up a ball for my son and noticed it has a 0.0-.5" pin! Is this normal or a defect Brian? If it goes long and snaps then thats great, his ball speed is on the slower side. Thanks, Triumph
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(FLOOD)MORICH TOTAL SHOCK AND AWE(MEDIUM)STORM PYRO (LIGHT)HAMMER VIBE.........STRINGING STRIKES, STRIKES I STRING.......SOMETIMES

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#37229 - 12/25/06 09:45 AM Re: Pin Position [Re: Triumph]
Brandon510 Offline
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1990
A/S/L: 28/Male/California/Philippines
Wow! Never seen one with that pin position. What kind of ball is it? Brian would be the expert on this subject.
_________________________
Current Arsenal:
LM Terminator - Roto Grip Cell - Roto Grip Illision - - Storm Team Spare Ball
ball .......................Brandon
BowlSk: Stats


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#37233 - 12/25/06 12:09 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: Brandon510]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
The problem with short pins is that they tend to go long as Brian says. But they tend to go so long that its difficult for people with minimal hand to get them to hook at all.

They are not something we would sell in our Pro Shop. If a ball came in from our distributor (besides a plastic ball) with that pin, we'd send it back that same day.

Erin

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#37234 - 12/25/06 12:14 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: Brian Longo]
ExBronxiteBowler Offline
PBA Senior Bowler

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 587
A/S/L: M 63 Staten Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
The top weight will usually make more of a difference than the pin distance. The more top weight the ball has, the more "lope" it'll have down the lane because there's more weight towards the cover. It's not much of a difference; maybe 2-4 feet. But if you throw a faster ball (which I think I remember you saying you do), it might be a hinderance.

Pin distances do make a difference as well as a shorter pin out will cause the ball to retain its axis rotation longer, thereby giving you more of a skid/snap reaction. This is because of the CG placement. If you place the CG more towards your fingers, you have more weight in the finger hemisphere, and closer to the pin, which delays the hook. Conversely, with a larger pin out, if you place the CG more in the thumb hemispehere, you get a more gradual, smoother hook because the CG is further away from the pin.

This ball may or may not work out for you depending on many factors. If your brother bought the ball at the Pro Shop you normally go to, let them check it out. The best thing you can do is have the Pro Shop person there examine all of your equipment and see if it'll fill a hole in your arsenal. If they know how you bowl, it won't take that long. However, if they don't know how you bowl, roll a game for them to see your style, speed, and release so they can determine if this ball is right for you or not. Some shops are nice enough that you can swap the same ball for one that has a pin out and top weight more suitable for your game because it won't cost them a dime.

**If you want a little more in-depth explanation about pin distance and top weight, check out this post I made last month.


Yes, most shops will do that if you bought the ball there and its undrilled. Bring in an Internet ball, and you want to swap it, well, I tell the person as diplomatuically as I can he needs to arrange that with whoever he got the ball from... Especailly if they want to swap a blem for a 1st line ball... Ball had a nice B stamped on it...


as far as the short pins (0-.5), you see a lot in lower weight balls, ig 10-12 pounds... In general, the shorter the pin, the earlier it hooks, the more right the pin plavment )for righthanders) The More it hooks. The Higher the pin, the Longer it goes, the more left (for righthanders) less it hooks. Again, this is just a general guide, other issues can affect the shape of the balls reaction, like the surface it is...
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#37235 - 12/25/06 01:49 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: ExBronxiteBowler]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I think I have this all backwards. The short pin is center heavy and therefore should rev up earlier. They usually go along with little top weight. The top weight means that the pin is really crooked (in the case of a 4 oz top weight). So when the weight block hangs from the pin, if its pretty much straight down, then the top weight will be lower. If the weight block hangs down at an angle then that's where you start seeing more top weight.

The long pins should rev up later. They cause the ball to be higher RG.

In both cases these are extreme balls and border line blems and in some cases are blems. If you are talking about an entry level ball without much core, then it won't make much impact. But if you are talking about a high end ball, and asymetrical core, then you really don't want to get such an extreme pin placement.

Most shops will not sell such balls. They are harder to drill. You cannot do as many things (as far as drilling) with them. Which is why you find a lot of them sold online.

Erin

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#37236 - 12/25/06 02:19 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: Atochabsh]
Triumph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 91
A/S/L: 38/M/Wa
Well I just examined the ball, check this out, the center of gravity mark is located exactly in the center of the pin! the pin is about an inch below the ring finger. The ball is 12#.
_________________________
(FLOOD)MORICH TOTAL SHOCK AND AWE(MEDIUM)STORM PYRO (LIGHT)HAMMER VIBE.........STRINGING STRIKES, STRIKES I STRING.......SOMETIMES

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#37256 - 12/25/06 11:48 PM Re: Pin Position [Re: Triumph]
Triumph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 91
A/S/L: 38/M/Wa
Well we just got back from the lanes. There was alot of carry down. My son was standing on 20 throwing over 10. The Tropical storm went long and made a nice smooth move to the pocket at the last second. I think it will snap on clean backends. This ball goes much longer than anyting I have. I think I could square up and go down and in with one of these.
_________________________
(FLOOD)MORICH TOTAL SHOCK AND AWE(MEDIUM)STORM PYRO (LIGHT)HAMMER VIBE.........STRINGING STRIKES, STRIKES I STRING.......SOMETIMES

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