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#38312 - 01/10/07 12:17 PM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Atochabsh]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1396
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Last year for my first 700 of the year, I received a leather coaster. Truthfully, it was the best award I have received for bowling because I can actually use it. This year, it was back to a pin. Does anyone know how they make the determination of what the awards are going to be? The rings and watches are nice for the higher awards. But the lower awards should be something that people can use, not just throw in a box.
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HG: 300
HS: 826
Cell, Special Agent, Paradigm, X-Factor, Erase-IT, Spare Storm (black)

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#38315 - 01/10/07 01:09 PM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: General Pounder]
Brandon510 Online   hippy
Legend

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1826
A/S/L: 28/Male/California
I dont know how they choose the awards. On the USBC website they list awards, but other than that i guess it what every that year there giving i guess. I have tons of pins and patchs from junior league back then i think all organization were sepearte it was YABA from youth. Only things i really used were from bowling alley its self like the shirts, mugs, and towel they would give us the pins i just put on my bowing bag.
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ball .......................Brandon
BowlSk: Stats
Fall/Winter 2008-2009: OUR GANG

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#38323 - 01/10/07 01:36 PM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: General Pounder]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1867
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: General Pounder
The rings and watches are nice for the higher awards. But the lower awards should be something that people can use, not just throw in a box.


Truth be told, that's what happens with most of the rings too.

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#38325 - 01/10/07 01:46 PM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Lefty]
Atochabsh Online   content
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4148
A/S/L: 42/F/California
The coasters for 700, the playing cards for 600, the keychains for 200 game and the rosin bags for 250 game were all discontinued. We had a few at the start of the winter league season, but have given them out (instead of the pins and patches) for as long as we had them available. Those awards were probably too expensive to make and ship to the associations. Just my guess as to why they were discontinued.

I agree, they were some of the more useful awards. I think people enjoyed them more then the patches and pins, especially for adults.

Erin

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#38337 - 01/10/07 03:15 PM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Lefty]
General Pounder Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 1396
A/S/L: 33/M/Tinley Park, IL
Originally Posted By: Lefty

Truth be told, that's what happens with most of the rings too.


I shot 299 earlier this year and I got the watch instead of the ring for that reason. I actually wear it every once in a while because mine broke recently and it is a much better watch than the one I got years ago for 100 pins over average. I do wear my 800 ring during the season though. Most people I work with think that it is a class ring.
_________________________
==================================
HG: 300
HS: 826
Cell, Special Agent, Paradigm, X-Factor, Erase-IT, Spare Storm (black)

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#39396 - 01/24/07 06:05 AM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Atochabsh]
bowlerjim Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 7
A/S/L: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
In the years before resin I never saw anyone hook balls as much and as easily as they do now. You had to take your thumb out of the ball and throw it real slow to hook the ball somewhat like the bowlers do no days by just dummping it on the lane with no lift or turn. And the pin reaction was so much different. You could tell the bowlers who didnt throw powerful hooks because they couldnt carry the 5 pin even on pocket hits. Now days those same bowlers are ripping the rack by still dumping the ball on the lane. Its sad to see but as I can see it doesnt bother most bowlers many of whom were not around in the great days of bowling when it was respected as a sport that took talent. Those days when every lane in town was full for 2 shifts and most all league bowlers practiced to keep up their avg, so many bowled 2 or more leagues.

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#39406 - 01/24/07 08:53 AM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: bowlerjim]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
There's a way to combat the power these balls have, bowlerjim, but it would be a massively expensive retrofit to current machines - make the pins 4 pounds each. That will never happen.

One of the causes of increased power is the friction coefficient. Plastic and urethane compared to resin have a lower coefficient of friction. Their inability to "grab" the lanes required the bowler to have more weight (most of your "good" bowlers used 16# equipment) and a little more velocity to carry. Optimum pocket angles were more difficult to come by because you usually had to be a little more direct, and hence the pocket was smaller.

But, as it has been mentioned a few times in this thread alone, lane conditions are a pretty good equalizer. Decreasing the amount of available friction to these resin balls and you can shrink the pocket. Unfortunately, if you do that in a house suddenly that's used to big scores and you'll shrink not only the pocket, but your league base and your bottom line. Margins within the Bowling Industry are pretty small overall, so proprietors do whatever is necessary to keep their constant money (a.k.a. league bowlers) coming back, and for some, easier and scorable lane conditions are their solutions.

Is it a travesty that bowling has reached this "point of no return"? Yes. Whose fault is it? Pick a name; ABC/WIBC, your local center's manager, "Joe Blowhard Crybaby" who needs 10 boards of area to shoot a deuce with, etc. When you're trying to keep your head above water in the Bowling Industry, it's a slippery slope. If you try to "fall back" and make things harder, you might keep the older generation of bowlers who knew what it was like to work for a decent score, but you might lose the new bowlers who are, hopefully, there to replace the older bowlers who quit/leave for whatever reason. If you keep up with the times, you risk losing that older generation. Either way, it's a tough call and a calculated risk.
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#39408 - 01/24/07 09:16 AM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: bowlerjim]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Originally Posted By: bowlerjim
Its sad to see but as I can see it doesnt bother most bowlers many of whom were not around in the great days of bowling when it was respected as a sport that took talent. Those days when every lane in town was full for 2 shifts and most all league bowlers practiced to keep up their avg, so many bowled 2 or more leagues.

You are too busy living in the past, my friend. In the days of longer commutes to and from work, Xbox and Playstation, and 150 channels on TV, there are more entertainment options now than the days before Pong and cable TV. When you look around and notice more and more people who have debt problems (judging by the increase in "credit counseling" companies and commercials), money is a little tighter, too.

Times change. People change (well, seemingly most do, anyhow). I can't tell if you're just bitter or jealous. Either way, you obviously don't understand that the game is bigger than just you, or me, or any one single person. If you want a challenge, find yourself a very low-end reactive and roll it. You can parade around holding a "Bowling is too easy now! Bring back the days of yore!" sign all you want, but it's not going to happen. League participation will still be lower today than it was 30 years ago. Averages will still be higher than they were 30 years ago.

Oh, and did you ever think that maybe coaching has something to do with the increase in scores as well? Hmmm...maybe not. I know there weren't a whole lot of coaches around when I started junior bowling in 1979. Actually, there weren't a whole lot of good coaches around throughout my YABA years at that, and I didn't exactly come from some rural hick area with one 8 lane bowling center. I came from an association of 20,000 with 8 bowling centers ranging from 12 lanes up to 48 lanes.

The availability of collaborative knowledge is much greater now. The emphasis on coaching and learning strong fundamentals now far surpasses the days of yesteryear. Technology has aided in the advancement of bowling balls and lane surfaces but it has also aided the ability to review mistakes and focus on small parts of the game only moments after you throw a ball (video cameras).
_________________________
Brian Longo
25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter"
as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop
--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#39412 - 01/24/07 09:51 AM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Brian Longo]
Tim Gerard Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1437
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
Exactly Brian,
There is so much information available nowadays with all the how too publications, the internet, heck this forum alone deals out alot of helpfull information. When I was a kid they did'nt offer bowling as a sport in high school, there were no coaches to help you with your game, teaching proper technique etc. I would venture to say that ALL sports have benefitted with the advancement of technology, golf, football , baseball, heck even fishing with their fish finders and scented lures. Averages are higher, the bowlers are better educated, and the equipment is better....its called progress, humans quest to make things better, to build a better mouse trap so to speak.
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Formerly Eraser

In the bag...all 15#

Lane Masters Sting
Roto Grip Mystic
Roto Grip Saturn
Ebonite Maxim

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#39413 - 01/24/07 11:17 AM Re: Make 200 par again [Re: Tim Gerard]
Atochabsh Online   content
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4148
A/S/L: 42/F/California
Quote:
If you want a challenge, find yourself a very low-end reactive and roll it.


Good point Brian. Or grab up an old rubber ball off the ball rack. There are plenty in both houses I bowl in. Ask the propietor if you can give them some bucks for it and have it fit for you.

Create a league (on a house pattern) where all you can use are plastic and rubber balls. You could call it a RETRO league and maybe the idea would attrack enough people to join. While you are doing that, make sure you don't let anyone crank the ball, you'll have to put a limit on the amount of revs you can impart on the ball and no robo arms. Only the old Dick Webber wrister allowed, perhaps you'd have to make an exception and allow the basic Robbies as they are still made today. No easy slide, but they can bring in a tin of cigarette ashes if they need to. No rolling bags, only totes and limit one ball per participant. And you'll have to get old score sheets so you don't use auto scorers. Someone on the team will have to sit and keep score or you'll have to pay a score keeper (good luck finding any kids that know how to keep score for a .25/game).

Its a good idea and might catch on. You could even talk the proprietor into having the cocktail waitress dress for the times. Make the whole center retro for that league. Our centers still have the same seating and cafe areas they had when they were built over 40 years ago. So the decor would still fit.

Erin

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