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#34994 - 11/01/06 01:50 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: rcasey]
Dennis Michael Offline
Legend

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 3355
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I'm no Bowling Coach, but listening to both of you, I replayed the video again and watched carefully.

The push off starts on 2 step and he is still reaching forward on the 3 step. The ball should be down and behind him by then. He only has step 4 + 5 to complete backswing and release. His slide has started and the ball is still coming down. That should be more of a simultaneous movement.

The extended push off takes too much of the approach, 3-steps. He reaches the foul line before the ball. He is late on delivery.

I said he has an approach similar to mine. My ball is behind my knee on step 3. If I do what he does, I pull the backswing up to force a delivery on time.

Not trying to make him like me. Just compared my arm swing position to his, step by step.
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#34997 - 11/01/06 07:23 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: Dennis Michael]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Good eye, Dennis. That could be because of the transition from a 5 to 4 step approach. Not to say he had a 5 step armswing, but I know I have tried to "mould" my armswing from a 5 to the traditional 4 step armswing, but to no avail.

The funny thing is, when I bowl right-handed, I have a 5 step approach and armswing. When I bowl left-handed, I have a 4 step armswing and approach. I'm weird. nut
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#35008 - 11/01/06 11:40 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: Brian Longo]
rcasey Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 96
A/S/L: 28/M/Chicago
You know, all the late timing talk got me to go back to that video and look at it closely. I have the ability to go frame-by-frame, and in my second step of the 4-step delivery, my bowling arm is straight down as my left foot flattens on the floor, right in time and where it should be. However, what I am seeing is that my arm is at the top of my backswing for much too long. You know, I must be hanging onto it up there, not letting my arm swing freely back. Look at it again after reading this and tell me if the late timing couldn't be caused by that.
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#35009 - 11/01/06 11:55 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: rcasey]
Brian Longo Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
The more I look at it, it almost seems like your third step is quick, at least it *looks* quicker on the video (I'm not counting the little shuffle step on purpose). Like 1...2...3..4. If the transition from your 3rd to 4th step is too quick, then it will seem like your ball is lagging behind at your swing's apex and not coming down at the right time..

Try a frame count from the 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th step and see if I'm not talking out my behind over here.
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--"Even the expert was once a beginner"--
--"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--

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#35010 - 11/01/06 11:58 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: rcasey]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1867
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
The ball should actually start to decend with the start of your last step. I don't think you're doing that. It looks like the ball is still going up as you start your last step. You also hang on to the ball at the end of your pushaway which is where I think your late timing comes from.

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#35421 - 11/14/06 09:03 PM Re: Here goes something... [Re: rcasey]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1207
A/S/L: 40/M/NYC
I will just echo what has already been said. Today was the first time I saw the video and before I saw the previous replies, I thought to myself, " his timing is late". I also stopped the video on each step and saw that the ball ended up where it should be eventually but at the last step you seem to be waiting for the ball a bit. Which confirms the fact that the timing is late. You don't seem to flow to the line. That is probably a result of changing your steps. I thought it might be a bad video. Maybe a slow frame rate. If you have to wait on the ball, that leaves open the possibility of muscling the ball on the way down.
On the plus side your balance seems to be pretty good. You should look into getting shots from different angles also. Try to get a shot from behind and also from an angle if possible. Get a close up shot of your release.
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#35432 - 11/15/06 10:41 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: Smooth Stroker]
ExBronxiteBowler Offline
PBA Senior Bowler

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 555
A/S/L: M 56 Staten Island, NY
Actaully, looks to me that you are over pushing the ball, locking out your elbow prior to the ball going into your backswing. That in itself will cause an armswing to be late. A pushaway should look like a backwatds C, yours looks like a U. Shorten the length of your pushaway so that as soon as your elbow leaves your side, it unhinges into the backswing, relaxing your forearm as you do so. Allow the weight of the ball to take your arm into the backswing. One way to get the ball into a good pushaway is to start moving your NON-BOWLING arm a split second before you start your approach. I think if you can do this, you will be less mechanical and more flowing, smoother in your approach.

Again, as smooth stroker stated, your balance at the foul line is pretty good.
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#35434 - 11/15/06 10:54 AM Re: Here goes something... [Re: Brian Longo]
ExBronxiteBowler Offline
PBA Senior Bowler

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 555
A/S/L: M 56 Staten Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Brian Longo
The more I look at it, it almost seems like your third step is quick, at least it *looks* quicker on the video (I'm not counting the little shuffle step on purpose). Like 1...2...3..4. If the transition from your 3rd to 4th step is too quick, then it will seem like your ball is lagging behind at your swing's apex and not coming down at the right time..

Try a frame count from the 2nd to 3rd, and 3rd to 4th step and see if I'm not talking out my behind over here.


that little shuffle step is known as a power step, and if properly utilized, can generate more rpms. The key to using it is not to have an over-extended pushaway.... Holman has a powerstep in his approach in his next to last step which enables him to drive through the ball, effortlessly. Two well known instructors, John Jowdy and Tom Kouros have written about this technique at great length... It does lead to a quick transition between the next to last step and the last step..and that transition can be a source of power.
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Scores are all relative to the scoring pace of the lane condition. This means if everyone and thier brother is striking, you better strike, if no one is stringing strikes, keep the ball in play and make your spares.

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