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#35341 - 11/12/06 08:48 PM Jr. / Adult tournament
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I'm just a bit curious as to the feelings generated by this scenario.

We have a large 6 squad (all are fillled in a 32 lane house) Jr. Adult tournament that is sanctioned for scholarship money for the Jrs. This tournament has pulled Jr bowlers from around the entire Bay Area, up to 200 miles away. The tournament is in a high scoring house on the house shot. Scoring pace is going to be high.

We are fortunate to have several PBA/PWBA Naitonal titalists in our immediate associaiion. We also have many Regional PBA players in our immediate association.

This weekend I noticed that nearly all the highest local averaging PBA players were hooked up with local Jrs bowling in this handicap house shot tournament.

How do you rate the fairness of such a tournament that is handicapped to 220 (not sure of the percentage) and allows PBA card holders to participate, to the benefit of their junior bowler partners?

Keep in mind that probably 90 - 95% of the Jr bowlers participating are paired up with their folks and have come from all around the 200 mile radius.


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#35342 - 11/12/06 10:25 PM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: Atochabsh]
Brian Longo Offline

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Well, unless the rules state that no PBA members can compete, then there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it. However, I don't believe that PBA members should be excluded because a) it is a handicap tournament and b) there are some non-PBA members who are probably capable of putting up some high scores on a house shot.

Maybe in the future there could be a stipulation that a PBA member has to have an active/current average and book average from USBC and if they're over the base, they get negative handicap. That might level the playing field a little more.
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

#35344 - 11/12/06 11:30 PM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: Brian Longo]
Angel Offline

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
I always feel bad for the PBA members. It always seems they're darned if they do, and darned if they don't. If they don't bowl City tournament, they don't support the organization. If they do, some bowler in a different division complains they're 3 lanes down from a pro.

In this scenario, I think it's great that the NorCal pros are participating. I think any kid that asks a pro on a week the pro has available--good for him or her.

If there is a lot of concern about how many pros do participate, I would definitely encourage the tournament director to create a scratch division and watch the entries increase even more. There are kids who won't bowl in a hcp tournament down here, but as soon as a scratch division gets created, they're in.

Down here, we always have divisions (scr/hcp or over/under a certain number). It allows more kids to compete and even more scholarships to be paid out.
Angel Zobel-Rodriguez

#35346 - 11/13/06 12:42 AM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: Angel]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I always feel bad for the PBA members. It always seems they're darned if they do, and darned if they don't.

I agree Angel, especially when it is to their benefit. They are often caught in a cant win for losing situation.

But this is to benefit the Jr bowler's scholarship fund, not their own. And you have to admit that the pool of PBA bowlers willing to bowl are slim none no matter where you are. So the chances of being able to even ask for the priveledge to bowl with one is very small.

There were no divisions that I am aware of, just handicap and I'm not sure how its devised (by pair or individual). If I find out differently I'll let you know. But divisions or not, it still means that on a house shot, the PBA bowler is going to shoot pretty good no matter what. While the average parent may shoot average, a bit over average.....who knows. But you know the PBA bowler is going to be able to shoot well on a house shot.


#35365 - 11/13/06 01:32 PM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: Atochabsh]
Lefty Offline

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I don't see the problem with it. If they want to limit the average of the adult bowlers, then they should do that, but I've always thought that limiting anything other than touring pros is worthless. There's a lot of good bowlers out there that aren't pros, and there are a lot of people with a regional card that aren't all that good. And anyone with a 200 average could get a card, so what are you really accomplishing by preventing them from bowling? To me it's just another reason for someone to not get a PBA card.

#35366 - 11/13/06 02:11 PM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: Lefty]
SoCal Jeff Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 419
A/S/L: Orange County, CA
I think Lefty makes some good points. Many of the best bowlers in my area do not hold a PBA card. I also think that if the Jr's were proactive enough to go out and get a local pro to bowl with them - then good for them since there is no rule against it.

I would also think that it will only strenghen the tournament for the future with the interst generated by the pro's participating.

#35371 - 11/13/06 04:27 PM Re: Jr. / Adult tournament [Re: SoCal Jeff]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Great guys, thanks for the opinions. We see these folks on a weekly basis bowling, so the newness of seeing tour titleists bowl, while inspiring, is normal.

I was just trying to put myself in some parents' shoes. They travel over 200 miles to bowl in a tournament with their kid and end up competing against title holders.

But there is no rule. So they bowl if they can when asked. I do like Angel's idea of raffling off a partnership with one of them for the next tournament, if one would agree to it.



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