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#35108 - 11/05/06 08:43 PM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Lefty]
Rollin' Cowboy Offline
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Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 192
A/S/L: 39/M/Atlanta
It wouldn't be so bad if you knew which pattern you are playing on and how it is laid out. As with most houses and house shot...even though it is supposed to be somewhat a consistent pattern...generally it's like a "mystery meat shot" anyways.
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
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#35117 - 11/06/06 02:28 AM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Lefty]
lorok Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 478
A/S/L: 30/male/albuquerque
Angel, haven't the 5 PBA patterns always been easier (in terms of oil ratios) than sport patterns? I am under the impression that sport is (or was, did they change it?) 2:1, while the PBA has been 4:1. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's whay I have been lead to believe.
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#35121 - 11/06/06 08:02 AM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: lorok]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
They're saying the PBA patterns are 3:1, and there's also some mention of a change in the sport pattern ratio to 3:1. I haven't read all the detials on that though.

I do see Angel's point about it kind of being "sport light" though. For me, I'd like to bowl on this because it will be a different pattern every week, and it will most closly represent tournament like conditions. You can't go bowl on a tournament condition for 5 weeks to get prepared. You have to go in, figure it out and bowl well. Also, most tournaments aren't sport patterns.

I really think there should be 3 tiers.. house, PBA patterns and sport. I don't know if that's what they're intending to do though.

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#35124 - 11/06/06 09:55 AM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Lefty]
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
The details are at http://www.bowl.com/sportbowling/pbaExperience_difference.aspx

Real Sport bowlers will want to throw up when they read the "comparison" button that claims that in a PBA league people will compare you to Walter Ray but in a real Sport league they'll compare you to a house shot hack. That's an insult to the bowlers who have worked for several years to create our Sport leagues and educate both the bowlers who try it and the curious onlookers who come out to watch it.

Sport ratios differ depending on the age of the lane surface and the type of lane surface. The ratios are 2:1, 2.5:1 and 3:1. But there's nothing stopping a Sport league from being even tougher--say 1:1 or 1.5:1. From what I've seen, the PBA shots are easier (unless you are bowling in the back parking lot). NoMoreHouseShots bowls on both types of conditions and he can confirm or deny that.

At this point, they do seem to be promoting this as another "tier." I have yet to see anything that shows that true Sport league ratios will change this year or next.

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#35126 - 11/06/06 10:16 AM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Angel]
Lefty Offline
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Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Angel, I agree with you about Sport still being harder. The other thing I wanted to say earlier was that I also agree with you about the fact that you can't say you're bowling on the same condition as the pro's. Unless you use the same oil and the same oil on the same surface in the same condition, it won't be the same.

Even with that, I still think it's a good thing, and will attract more bowlers to harder conditions. I think it will also give bowlers a better appreciation for what the pros are accomplishing out on tour and hopefully help the popularity of the PBA.

Maybe I'm being to optimistic, but I see it as a way that the PBA and the USBC can help each other.

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#35133 - 11/06/06 12:28 PM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Lefty]
Angel Offline


Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 401
A/S/L: F/So Cal
I really hope they can be mutually beneficial, too. Where my concern lies is in the fact that Sport Bowling is already not growing fast enough/strong enough, and then they've come out with a product that on the Sport website they actually promote better than they promote the Sport Bowling program.

I think it will have some success because the same people who do not understand Sport won't really understand that they're not bowling on the exact same conditions as the pros. But they will think they're as good as the pros when they put up the occasional number that beats what the pros shot on TV that week.
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#35134 - 11/06/06 12:51 PM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Angel]
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
Quote:

I think it will have some success because the same people who do not understand Sport won't really understand that they're not bowling on the exact same conditions as the pros. But they will think they're as good as the pros when they put up the occasional number that beats what the pros shot on TV that week.


The PBA shots can also be a stepping stone to sport shots. I think sport patterns are to rude of an awakening for a lot of bowlers. Heck, the PBA shots are going to be a rude awakening for most bowlers. I bowl on 2 non-house shots now. One is 3:1/4:1 and the other is 5:1. On the 5:1 shot, I'm averaging around 210 and there are people there that think the shot is to tough. I'm averaging about 200 on the harder shot and generally average between 180 and 190 on a sport shot.

I personally don't mind averaging lower. You just have to have the right perspective going into it. But I think there's a lot of people who get on a sport shot and really have no idea what to do. They've never tried to play straighter, they've never before usnderstood that they don't have great acuracy or consistancy, and they feel stupid not being able to hit the head pin.

So hopefully PBA patterns are a way to groom people for sport bowling.

As for them promoting it better, I'd bet that's because it's more promotable. Yes, telling people they're bowling on the same thing that the pros bowl on is a gimmick, but it's a gimmick that I think will work.

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#35136 - 11/06/06 01:29 PM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
You still have to take the tapes and have a tape reader. Plus you have to have a more contemporary lane oiler to set out the patterns and change them from week to week.

I think its a better selling point then the "Sport" concept, but its still very labor intensive for the house.

It will,however, remedy the variances seen on Sport conditions across the nation. Everyone across the nation will play on the same shot so you can really compare scores. Instead of some places have a barely legal sport shot vs some of the monster sport shots I've seen.

Erin

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#35137 - 11/06/06 03:21 PM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: Angel]
Happy Birthday SportBowler Joe Offline
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Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 154
A/S/L: 63/M/SoCal-RH
What's easier sport or PBA?: It all depends on the pattern & the type of bowler, the PBA shark pattern 43' (our current pattern) to me is tougher than our monday sport shot 37', if I was a cranker ie: Tommy Jones/Robert Smith, I probably would prefer the Shark pattern but the majority of bowlers are not crankers and would usually score higher on the shorter patterns. When you put out the Cheeath or Viper pattern the majority of bowlers will find it easier to score on than "most" sport patterns.

Joe
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#36068 - 12/02/06 04:29 AM Re: PBA Experience Leagues [Re: SportBowler Joe]
Toddfather Offline
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Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 142
A/S/L: 32/M/Phoenix, AZ
I like how it is compared to playing Pebble Beach the week after the U.S. Open in golf. The oil may not be the same, or on the same wood/synthetic, or in the same elevation, etc. as the pros played on the week before- but it is gonna be comparable. An oil pattern that is the same length and ratio at each center from Florida to Washington played simultaniously will definitely create a level playing field for all.
Comparing yourself to the pro bowler's is another story! That's like saying if you stand on the mound in a big league baseball diamond and throw to a batter, you can judge how well you did versus _______(fill in favorite pitcher).
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