#34641 - 10/21/0602:52 PMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Dennis Michael]
Tyveil
Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 479
A/S/L: Kansas
Dennis,
Sorry to hear you're getting grief for using the support. I say if you want to continue with it, do it.. play the game the way you want to and have the most fun. It's not worth changing your game so drastically if you don't believe its the right thing to do. If you do believe it's the right thing to do (which I did for me) then good luck and get ready to take your lumps, the transition is not easy but for me (and others) it's a very good move long term.
Ok.. now I think I can safely say I've made the transition and it's taken about 4 months of mediocre bowling. Last night I bowled another 600 (a 615) and it's the first time I've ever bowled back to back 600's in league.
You describe well what I felt like after I quit the support. I could feel my wrist bending and twisting during each shot. I didn't know how to control it or what I should be trying to do. Hold my wrist rigid and I was tensing my arm (not good), hold my wrist loose and I was dropping the ball and/or getting no rotation.
I did not excercise the wrist during the transition time, though I did move it around a lot (stretch) pre- and during games. I'd be careful if you're going to do any strengthening. The wrist has so many small muscles and it's easy to pull or injure them with little resistance (I've hurt mine before lifting light weights and it stayed hurt for like a month). That said I think my wrist has gotten stronger gradually just by not using the support.
One thing that has helped is the angle of the ball in relation to my throwing arm. I start with 90% of the ball weight in my off-hand. As I let the ball fall free into the swing I have lately focused on keeping my hand mostly on the side (rather than twisting the ball out to get my hand directly behind the ball). Hope that makes sense.. I think before I was twisting the ball too far (opening the palm). That is much harder to do without a support and now I have found it is completely unnecessary.
Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
_________________________
My Arsenal 15# Track Rule GP2 - Heavy Oil 15# Track XCeption 5.0 - Medium Oil 15# Quantum (Forest Green) - Dry/Wood 15# White Dot - Spares
I'm sticking with the support. Actually I'm so much more confident with it on than without it. With the support on, I really don't have to worry so much about the release. It's all about finding that line to the pocket and staying there. Now, my biggest problem is lane recognition.
_________________________
Arsenal in bag Morich Seek and Destroy...love this ball!!! Lane1 Tsunami...looking to change this either to a Morich Sahara or Awesome Flip White dot
#34697 - 10/23/0608:49 AMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Dennis Michael]
Tim Gerard
Legend
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1437
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
I am curious too Tyveil, I practiced yesterday ( 5 games ) without the wrist support and struggled big time. And later last night, and this A.M. my wrist hurts. I am leaning towards going back to the support. I don't want to have to depend on it, but I am not bowling very well without it, and now the pain shows up. Did you have any pain when you stopped using it?
#34699 - 10/23/0609:00 AMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Tim Gerard]
Brian Longo
Legend
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
You're going to experience fatigue trying to bowl, uh, "naked" (i.e., without the support). This is because you're not used to using those forearm muscles, and your wrist tendons and ligaments aren't used to the strain because the support evenly distributed the load from your ball from the back of your hand to your forearm. It will take a little time for you to build up stamina in your wrist and forearm to take over the load that was once being distributed by the support.
Also, it's possible you could have been subconsciously squeezing the ball because of the missing support. While a wrist support is a "physical device", it can also be a "mental device".
_________________________
Brian Longo 25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter" as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop --"Even the expert was once a beginner"-- --"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--
#34700 - 10/23/0609:22 AMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Dennis Michael]
Brian Longo
Legend
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
The reason I asked was that I have been taking some grief from a teammate for my wrist support. He is a friend and I think his ribbing is mostly in jest. I criticize him when he changes the soles of his sliding shoe.
But, I have tried without the support, and I constantly turn my wrist in the backswing and often on the release. I claim this is because of 2 factors: 1. the loss of strength in my wrist after giving up bowling for so many years, and 2. the fact that during that time off, I broke my wrist so I have limited mobility.
He calls the support a crutch. I call it an assist.
And that's what it is to you; an assist. I bowl with a guy who uses a support (mainly a Pro Release but has now "stepped down" to a Columbia 300 glove with the metal wrist support). Out of curiosity, because he's fairly well-built (about 6'3 230), and still fairly young (41), I asked him why he used the support. He said because he broke his wrist while riding motorcycles (he used to ride in a circuit motocross known as "trials"). The support helps him with his release as his wrist is not strong enough to carry the weight of the ball for 3 games. He's a pretty good bowler (195+ average) but would probably be in the 160's without it.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Then I put it back on. Shot 210 and 237. Even he noticed the difference in the way my ball rolled and the control I had. But, he still won't accept it.
Dennis, not to be patronizing, but what does it matter what your friend/teammate thinks? I called my support a crutch. I used one because my dad was using one, not because I actually needed the darn thing. Yes, it kept otherwise moving parts locked, but to me, it was a hinderance, so I ditched it. I would never call someone else's support a crutch.
I do know, though, that someone with an otheriwse healthy and strong wrist should not need one if its sole purpose is to keep their wrist straight. You can keep the wrist from moving without one through practice. And by not using one, you can actually learn to do more with a bowling ball and can possibly eliminate one from your bag. However, if you have a weak wrist, then it's more beneficial to use one and might actually keep you around longer to enjoy the game.
In your situation, though, there's nothing wrong with it. Heck, in anyone's situation, there's really nothing wrong with it. If you bowl better with it than without it, use it. That's the name of the game, right? He/She who knocks down the most pins wins, unless the scoring system is somehow different in your league. Just like those interchangable heel/sole shoes your friend uses; obviously those shoes make him feel more comfortable. Maybe, if you're fed up with his classification of your support as a crutch, you should ask him if his shoes are a crutch or an assist.
_________________________
Brian Longo 25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter" as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop --"Even the expert was once a beginner"-- --"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--
#34702 - 10/23/0609:57 AMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Tim Gerard]
Tyveil
Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 479
A/S/L: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Eraser
I am curious too Tyveil, I practiced yesterday ( 5 games ) without the wrist support and struggled big time. And later last night, and this A.M. my wrist hurts. I am leaning towards going back to the support. I don't want to have to depend on it, but I am not bowling very well without it, and now the pain shows up. Did you have any pain when you stopped using it?
Yes I did have wrist pain when I stopped using it. Not really so much while bowling but the next day or more (sometimes up to a week). Some weeks it was worse than others. This last week I bowled 10 games over 3 days (2 leagues and a 4-game tournament) and have had no pain whatsoever. So either my wrist has strengthened up or I'm throwing more naturally to not cause so much strain or a combonation of both.
_________________________
My Arsenal 15# Track Rule GP2 - Heavy Oil 15# Track XCeption 5.0 - Medium Oil 15# Quantum (Forest Green) - Dry/Wood 15# White Dot - Spares
#34707 - 10/23/0611:24 AMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Tyveil]
Tim Gerard
Legend
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1437
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
I guess I'll give it another week or so. Although they hav'nt said so , I think my team mates would prefer I go back to it. We have not done well as a team, largely due to me being under avg. There was a comment of "if it aint broke don't fix it". We bowl for 1st this week.
#34709 - 10/23/0612:28 PMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Tim Gerard]
Brian Longo
Legend
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1278
A/S/L: 34/M/Hampstead, NC
Originally Posted By: Eraser
I guess I'll give it another week or so. Although they hav'nt said so , I think my team mates would prefer I go back to it. We have not done well as a team, largely due to me being under avg. There was a comment of "if it aint broke don't fix it". We bowl for 1st this week.
Pardon me for being a little off-topic on this response, but a couple of things have really stuck in my craw.
1) Honestly, if I was a member of yours and Dennis' teams, I'd quit. It really ticks me off when people act like they're bowling for a grand a head when they're only making pennies to a dollar. I know of very, very few leagues you actually "make money" in that you get more back than what you pay into it for weekly fees, and generally, that's only possible because of sponsors. So what's the big freakin' deal if you're bowling worse because you're trying to become a better bowler by not using your support? I mean, really, are your teammates' kids going to go without food or clothes if you don't come in first? Ridiculous!
2) Are your teammates that darn good to where they always hit their average or better? Do they do the "weekend warrior" tournaments, like PBA regionals, or bowl in big money tournaments like the Hoinke Classic? If they do, then fine. But even to that end, no teammate has the right to belittle anyone else on their team for whatever reason, no matter how old you two gentlemen are. Little kids in junior bowling pull that attitude. Not grown adults! Honestly!
Dennis and Eraser, I sure hope I haven't irritated you two for what I posted here, and if I did, please accept my sincerest apologies. I mean no harm to you two gentlemen, but when I see talk like that, and the comments you're getting from your teammates, then I get mad as hell, and I wonder if you two are actually having fun with these other folks. If you guys are under so much pressure from your teammates, it's a wonder how you two are improving. If I had that much pressure from my teammates, I'd quit bowling with them, seriously. Unless your team is a hand-picked team that's going to some high-dollar tournament with a $500/per entry fee, then you don't need that kind of talk or pressure from your teammates.
And yes, I have quit a team because of the poor attitude of my teammates once. Mind you, I didn't know these guys as I was new to the area, because I went there for college, so I had no idea with whom I was bowling with. I got off to a slow start, seeing as I booked a 199 from a different house in a different state and bowled in a center with tougher conditions. I got comments like the ones you guys are getting, even the first night where I shot a low 500: "Where did you ever average 199? We're not impressed". I thought they were kidding, and I laughed it off, but then I realized those idiots weren't kidding when I got comments like: "Geez, you haven't shot decent since you got here. I thought you said you were a good bowler?" and, "would you mind helping us win a few games? We would be in first place if it weren't for you". I also ditched a ball when I was trying to find an outside line and walking back I got, "can't even keep the ball on the lane, huh junior? Some bowler you are". It made me sick. The last comment was, "we're tired of losing games because you can't hit your average", which happened to be a night when nobody hit their average more than once.
These guys were a bunch of "wannabe superstars" and not one of them averaged above a 170. I can't repeat the exact phrase of what I told them, but it goes along with, "stick it where the sun don't shine", though much, much more vulgar and with about as many explicatives as regular words (yes, I lost it). To them, first place was everything. Not to me. I just wanted to enjoy my first year of adult leagues, which I never got a chance to even finish. I quit on the spot. 12 games in and I gave the secretary my next two weeks worth of dues and walked out the door. After two weeks went by with nobody showing up to take my spot, I got a phone call from the captain of the team wanting me to come back. I told him, "hell no!" He apologized for the actions of him and his team, but I still wouldn't go back. No way was I going to subject myself to being harrassed by a bunch of hacks. I couldn't even tell you if they found a replacement because I didn't care.
That's why your stories provoked this post, because it hit real close to home.
_________________________
Brian Longo 25+ years bowling, 8 years "behind the counter" as a mechanic, "laneman" and in the pro shop --"Even the expert was once a beginner"-- --"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"--
#34710 - 10/23/0612:30 PMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Tim Gerard]
Black Jack
League Bowler
Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 16/Male/Britland
In my experience wearing a wrist support created a more controlled release, but for me it was bad (being a cranker) I have a friend who used to use one and it made his release less smooth than without one, he used to carry a 170ish average, now he's up in the 205's with me... so in general I'd choose not to wear one given a choice, it also takes strength out of the wrist meaning you'll have to have one to bowl
_________________________
"If you hadn't gotten strikes there... there, there, there or there, there too, and there... also there, there and there, I would've beaten you."-- a friend
"The main element of my technique is power, power and luck... lots of luck"-- me
"For Christs sake, bowling is easy just knock all the pins down!"-- me coaching
#34725 - 10/23/0602:25 PMRe: Wrist support (revisited)
[Re: Black Jack]
Tim Gerard
Legend
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 1437
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
Brian, Settle down now,... in my situation the guys I bowl with are just the opposite of what you describe. I said that they did not say anything to me, the "if it aint broke" remark was in jest. These guys are so,so supportive. They are always encouraging me. Its that I feel like I'm letting them down when I am tinkering with my game when it counts. I am sorry I did not make myself clearer. I have seen guys like that though, all blood and guts, and no fun at all. If I had to bowl with those guys, I probably would not. There are Primadonnas in all walks of life,but my teamates are a great bunch of guys, and I am thankfull I bowl with them. They understand what I am trying to do. The pressure I am under is not from them, its self inflicted, because they are so supportive I don't want to let them down. I know.....I know....silly huh? Sorry again if I lead you to think otherwise.