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#33837 - 09/19/06 04:50 PM Is This Sandbagging?
Tyveil Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 463
A/S/L: Kansas
This topic actually came to my head from another thread here ( where I was asked if I'm working on my handicap because my 180 average (last year) has plummeted to below 150 the beginning of this year. I've also been accused of sandbagging by other members of our league who know me as a 180 bowler and have seen my poor games this year... well, here's the situation.

Towards the end of last year, I realized my game needed some major changes:
  • I needed a few new bowling balls.
  • I needed to stop wearing my wrist support.
  • I needed coaching.

Well, I did all of this over summer, and as expected my average dropped pretty drastically... enough that it has carried over into our winter leagues. I am not trying to score low and in my mind I am not sandbagging. Every night I go in with the intention to perform at my very best and knock down as many pins as I can. Well, good intentions haven't been enough.

5 weeks into the season though and I'm starting to feel much more comfortable.. my average is on the steady rise and I feel before long I'll be back up to my normal self (180+ bowler)..

So, am I a sandbagger? Should I make such drastic changes mid-season instead of during the off-season? Forfeiting any chance of my team doing well but at least not being accused of sandbagging? Just a thought for discussion.
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#33838 - 09/19/06 05:16 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Tyveil]
Chaos Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 117
A/S/L: 19/Male/Virginia
No, you are not a sandbagger. You should try to get better all the time. Just because someone thinks your sandbagging doesn't mean you are. Your decision on when to get coaching and make changes is your business. Not theirs.

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#33839 - 09/19/06 05:55 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Chaos]
Brian Longo Offline

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 1393
A/S/L: 37/M/Jacksonville, NC
Just like I tell my junior bowlers, any time you make a drastic change to your game, which you have done, you should expect your average to drop because you are breaking "old habits" and creating "new habits". As for what anyone else says to you about your lower than usual average, be they on this board or in your leagues, don't let it get to you. If they want to talk or act like that, then let them. As long as you know you aren't sandbagging, then that's what's important. Besides, the average bowler can't see the difference between a sandbagger and someone trying to work on his game.

If it makes you feel better, knowing all the questions you've asked on this board, I commend you for working on your game to be better. I know how hard it is to change and get out of a comfort zone, and I know how hard it is to get back to a standard that was once achievable with ease. But once you catapault yourself over that old standard, you can have the satisfaction of telling all of the people who are calling you a sandbagger now to stick it where the sun don't shine. wink

And when they start begging you to bowl with them when you are better, you can either forgive them and agree to it, or give them the brush off. Me? I choose the latter, but hey, that's how I go about things.

Keep your head up and don't let the naysayers get to you.
"There are no magical balls, just magical bowlers"

#33840 - 09/19/06 06:13 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Brian Longo]
ThunderStrike Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 30
A/S/L: 42/M/Melbourne, FL
You made changes to your game in the summer, which is the right time to do so. Don't let the people who are calling you "sandbagger" this fall get to you. When all the new "habits" start clicking you will probably start bowling 10 to 20 pins over your old average. Stay positive and you will be bowling like your old self soon. Then those same people will find something else to [censored] about.


#33842 - 09/19/06 07:50 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: ThunderStrike]
ORobbed1 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 70
A/S/L: 48/male/so. cal
“Sandbagging” definition is very simple IMHO. You are sandbagging if you are intentionally bowling below your potential for the purpose of gaining an advantage in future matches. You are clearly not doing that. What is harder to prove (but easy to see) is the “finesse sandbaggers”. These are the guys that bowl like $100,000 is on the line at the beginning of the match and suddenly develop arm sprains when the team gets a big lead. “Why should I bowl a 230 when the team only needs a 180 from me for us to win the match?” Is how they think.
Anyway, forget about what others say and roll the ball and try to not let the nabobs distract you from your goal. By the way is there a term for the guy that shoots 800 on the first night of a handicap league…..other than “stupid” of course.
Rob----Used to bowl, stopped bowling, started bowling again, never stop bowling again.

#33843 - 09/19/06 09:12 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: ORobbed1]
luisistaz Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 342
A/S/L: 49/male/Tijuana, Mexico
Definitively not sandbagging, any one who want's to change his game for the better is not sandbagging. Like Brian said, expect a dropp in your average but you may also expect a rise afterwards. Keep on perfecting your game.

#33845 - 09/19/06 10:55 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: luisistaz]
Jdhaze Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 235
A/S/L: 35/M/NH
Keep your chin up, you arent doing anything wrong. In fact im in a similar situation on the other side of the spectrum. We use our average for the 1st 3 weeks from last year which was 175, but I worked a lot on my game this summer and ive been averaging 195 the last 2 weeks. Ive had several people complain I was a sandbagger. Last week I threw a 234 and then lost my shot and got a 145 the next game, and someone on the other team called me a sandbagger. So the third game I threw the front 6 and then walked over to them and said "thanks, your sandbagging comment really fired me up I appreciate it".

Good luck and all your hard work will pay off soon!


#33858 - 09/20/06 01:39 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Jdhaze]
Chris Cenotti Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 154
A/S/L: 25/M/Northern California
I can almost see their point of view. I don't agree with it however. What I've found is that there is a large group of bowlers (guys mostly) who refuse to make the sacrifices needed to improve. They are unwilling to take a step back, even if it means two steps forward down the line. So they hit their ceiling at some point and find excuses for not improving any more (the new lane conditions these days, I need a new ball, darn sandbaggers, getting old, too many beers, etc etc etc).

It's too bad because some of these guys are in the 190-200 avg range and have been bowling a long time. They've built expectations for themselves and can't understand changing something intentionally that will have an immediate negative impact on their scores.

So in their mind, maybe they see you changing things about your game that have made your scores drop. In their mind you intentionally did something to drop your scores. They don't consider that the lower scores were not the intention, and they don't have the foresight to see that in the long term (like the whole season and the years to come) these changes will make you a better bowler. Or maybe they do consider those things and resent the fact that they don't have the guts to do the same.

The bottom line is that you started down this path with the intention of getting better. That is the opposite of sandbagging. Taking that hit to your average is a tough pill to swallow, especially when you *know* you can bowl better. But keep reminding yourself of your long-term goals and be patient with yourself.


#33864 - 09/20/06 02:46 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Chris Cenotti]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Sandbagging is intentionally bowling bad for some future gain. That is not what you are doing. Ignore the claims. You will show them in the long run.

If anyone can be claimed as a sandbagger, it is me. Finished last with a 194 in this league, and for the first 2 weeks, I averaged under 150. But, our league carrys over our established league handicap, or starts off a new bowler with a search of any sanction average of last year. That is the basis for the handicap for the first 4 weeks.
After 4 weeks, the actual handicap is calculated. The only ones hurt by lower scores in the beginning are the individual bowler and the team.
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#33866 - 09/20/06 03:18 PM Re: Is This Sandbagging? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Tyveil Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 463
A/S/L: Kansas
Thanks all, I'm in agreement with everyone here and I definitely am not trying to purposefully sandbag. I made the changes with the intention of someday (hopefully soon) rising to above a 200 average. I believe my game had plateau'ed at the 180's and don't think I could have got there with my existing technique. I have a feeling though that more comments of sandbagging will be heading my way as the season progresses. I'll just have to take em as they come and not let them get to me.
My Arsenal
15# Track Rule GP2 - Heavy Oil
15# Track XCeption 5.0 - Medium Oil
15# Quantum (Forest Green) - Dry/Wood
15# White Dot - Spares

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