But a 210 bowler can do things to adjust that a true 91 average bowler has no concept of.

Thankfully, I don't see very many 91 average bowlers that are older than, say 8 years old. Even the brand new parents in the Adult/Jr leagues come in at 110-120.

I'll just be thankful of the leagues I deal with--the scratch sport leagues and the kids leagues. I honestly don't think I could bowl a true handicap league with a prize fund ever again.

I do not have any problem with a handicap league. I bowl in two scratch and two handicap leagues. The handicap leagues are more social. There is a little money involved but not enough to worry about. If you have a problem with handicap just don,t bowl in that type of league. I do it because I enjoy bowling and if all I bowled in were competitive leagues I would burn out. This keeps me bowling and enjoying it. Besides, many of the people involved in those leagues still get excited when they get something going and it's fun to watch and be a part of.

Oh how I miss bowling in my old hometown where the choice of scratch leagues was greater then my choice of handicap leagues here. Personally, I'd love to bowl in a scratch league with a sport shot, but hey, that's ain't happenin' around here.

100% handicap, to me, is about as fair as we can get here. 90% I would prefer, but then I have a 15-20 pin advantage out of the blocks against 90% of the bowlers in the house I bowl in. How many people are going to stick around once you knock them down a handful of times? If they're competitive, they'll view it as a challenge. Unfortunately, bowling is a social event in my area, thus most of them would rather quit than face me and my team again.

I remember when I was still in junior bowling in a travel league. It was 90% of 200 and I carried a 195-199 for most of the year. This was also a 30 point head-to-head league, and most weeks I was bowling against kids who had averages no higher than 160. Man up, I was giving away 30-40 pins a week. But...they didn't win a whole lot of games. I took 52 out of 72 possible points against kids with averages 40-50 pins less than me. Part of that was my 10% gain for the higher average, but mostly, it was because I knew some of these kids had potential to "bowl out of their tree" to beat me. If they beat me, most of them shot at least 30-40 pins over for their point. I didn't give up because they were getting 30-40 sticks. I saw it as a personal challenge to not get beat just because I was giving up 3 marks. Big deal. I can make 3 marks in 2 frames. After that, we're even. I never worried about who I bowled against nor did I care and still carry that same attitude today. Just like I tell my juniors, if you bowl your best, 9 times out of 10 you will come out a winner, but never think that you're unbeatable, because you are. There will always be one game or series when you knock 'em dead and someone else has a better day. That's life. Move on.

My point is that regardless of the handicap system, you still have to bowl at least average to have a reasonable chance of winning no matter who you bowl. You still have to carry a teammate who is having a bad night, or you still have to make open frames count better off of a strike. You can't lose focus or get upset just because you're giving up 100-200 pins. As Angel said, most of the time, the lower average bowlers aren't going to have a massive game against you. There's a reason why their average is so low. Bowl within yourself and have a good time doing it. Use that league environment to practice up for tournaments, which is where you're going to stand the best chance of making money.

If you're more worried about your opponent's handicap than you are about your own bowling, you will lose to them 9 times out of 10.

[quote]But a 210 bowler can do things to adjust that a true 91 average bowler has no concept of. [/quote}

So what trumps what? Does Luck + handicap trump higher skill, or does higher skill trump luck + handicap.

But I can tell you this, when the shot is horrid, lower average bowlers at not effected by lane conditions. But higher average bowlers can make their own luck (or I should say exploit it when they see it) through skill and experience. But they will always be more adversely effected by a more challenging lane condition then lower average bowlers.

We have quite a few adult bowlers that are under 110 in our mixed league. Plus last summer we had an adult lady that came into the season late to fill a vacancy, and established at 46. As you can imagine for the remainder of the season she improved and in a big way. So how do you fight someone that is handicapped at 46 and repetitately shoots 40 pins over per game for at least three or four weeks untill she evens out again?

Erin

I forgot to mention in my post in this thread that, although I bowl in a 100% league, there is a handicap limit. Our league is 100% of 190 with a minimum average of 137. There are several bowlers whose actual average is below that but for scoring purposes they are awarded a 137 average (53 pins per game). The hardest we are going to have to work is to get 159 pins back per game. Those with averages below the limit are working hard to get above that figure so that they can "level out the playing field" for themselves. The rest of us are working to get our averages up so that we can outscore them. It has had a positive effect. One thing that is for sure... there are no Sandbaggers in this league. If there is a tournament or trial, just about everyone is there... even the 130 average bowlers! Maybe we are lucky but I think that the limit set has had a very beneficial effect. One lady who joined the league a couple of years ago averaged just over 100 when she started, now she is bowling around 160 and regularly pops in 200+ games. I have spoken to her about the improvement and she told me that she just wanted to get up with the rest of the "Guys" and has worked hard to get there. She hated not having a "real" average that reflected her ability when she started and that was the motivation to get better and bowl without her team-mates having to make up her shortfall in pins.
My 2 cents worth anyway. Let the debate continue.. it has been great fun watching this one.
Good bowling everyone,
Allan

3 years ago, when I started bowling again, I was invited to join a Mixed league by a friend of mine. It got me hooked. Over the Summer, my friend and his wife asked if my wife and I would like to join a Summer League. We accepted.

My wife was a 100 bowler, no more. Over the 14 week season, she improved to about 125. That meant she was bowling almost 140 at the end of the Summer to raise her average so much.

In the final roll-off for the Championship, she bowled her highest series of the year. She was at least 25-30 pins over average in each game, plus her handicap. This was tough for the other team to overcome, and they didn't.

A weak bowler can improve more over a season than an established bowler can. And, when a weak bowler is bowling 25+ pins over average each game in a handicapped league, the opponent has a tough time.

Well, here's how I look at it - when you bowl in a handicap league, you should expect newer bowlers to improve at some point, and you should expect sandbaggers.

As for the original post by Boncobilly with being "hit" with the handicap system his league has, well, if it wasn't expected, I understand the grumbling. It's sort of unfair to change while not giving everyone who plans to bowl the opportunity to voice their say.

Those of us who are stuck in small-market places where there's nothing but handicap leagues, well, it's tough, but it's not the end of the world. Those of us who are lucky to have a variety of leagues and centers around, be thankful you have those choices.

There will never be one handicap system that's fair for everyone. 100% should be a limit (not 116% or whatever USBC says - it's no wonder why league and association directors are getting more than a little peeved by the goings on at headquarters). If your leagues are pretty competitive, make it 80% of 220 or whatever's the highest average. If it's a social event, give 'em 100%. Otherwise, have fun.

So there's always a way to get around 100% handicap. Because in your system why would anyone under 137 join the league?

In our recent past summer league we had 41 people (11, 4 man teams with 3 vacancies). 13 bowlers were under 137. That's about 1/3 of the league. And those numbers were taken from a week 11 out of 13 season standing sheet. So this was as high as they'd gotten in 11 weeks of bowling. In our 90% of 210 system they would all get more handicap then if they were in your 100% system. Plus one of the teams of 4 had three players under 137 and their strongest player was 140. They'd have absolutely no chance in your league. But by week 11 they were in the middle of the pack in our league.

Erin

Yup Atochabsh, we only have a couple of bowlers under 137 (and the way I bowled tonight I may be amongst them very soon!) but they joined because this league has the highest number of our top bowlers in it. It is very competitive and those people, like me, joined to learn and get better. Don't let the low averages fool you though, we play on very tough and unforgiving lanes that vary wildly week to week. We have just one bowler currently running a 190 average so the top cut-off is pretty much right on. Our averages are cumulative throughout the season, so if you start off bad, it is very difficult to get your average up. At this point in the year, we have bowled something like 76 games. Many of the lower average bowlers can bowl well above their average at times, but the lanes will not allow it to happen often and when we get particularly difficult nights the handicap system keeps the games tight and interesting. I'm not saying that it works for everyone but I am saying that it can work. I have yet to see a system that will treat every bowler fairly, but it does provide a challenge to those high average bowlers and keeps the lower average bowlers interested. As those bowlers improve their advantage is steadily whittled away by their improving average. Anyway, its all we have, so we live with it.
Cheers,
Allan

I can see Dick's point completely. I wouldn't bowl a handicap league with a prize fund. That said, our adult/junior league is 90% to the top average (usually 220). It's a fun league, and I can turn that competitive gene off at the door. It's easy to see people have their career night against you (or anyone else) when there's no chance they did something hokey to get their average that low. There are dads shooting their first 200 game and kids that we've seen since they barely were off bumpers and now they're hitting 3 digits or 200+ series.

Otherwise, for real leagues with serious money attached, it's scratch only.