Camper,

I don't understand why they went with 100%. Why not just go 90% of 230 to include the highest league average?

100% handicap encourages sandbagging and discourages improvement.

Angel, I think your Jr ideas are great. Plus when you bring on a lower average bowler you have great opportunities to improve that bowler. If you have kids bringing on lower average friends, then its a great idea two help those lower averging kids improve. An improving bowler and team is the one that wins, not the highest average.

Higher average bowlers were not 'hatched'. They worked for their skills. And that ability to work to improve is available to everyone. Its all about the amount of effort you can put into it. If you cannot, due to finances, time constrictions, other hobbies and sports that's fine. But you shouldn't just get given equal playing field when you did nothing to earn it.

Erin

That's the wrong solution to the problem. The cap should be about 10 pins higher than your highest bowlers average. So in the case of your league, they should have changed the handicap to 90% of 230 or thereabouts. I am strongly against 100% handicap. 90% seems to be good for most leagues. More competitive leagues may use lower - 80% or lower, or scratch. I could see 100% handicap for a beginners league, but that's it.

Every year we have our league meeting and the president says USBC is pushing all leagues to go to 100%, I don't know if this is false or misguided information but I don't know why the USBC would want all leagues to go to this format. I can understand to bring in new bowlers but what do you do to retain the veterans?

And guess which type of bowlers always suggest the 100% rule? Unfortunately, we will never rid ourselves of the cheats in this sport, and it's terribly difficult to catch them, so usually, my motiviation against a bunch of sandbaggers it to beat them. That's all you can do. I pick the best teammates I can find to "beat the cheats". As long as they don't win the league, then I'm happy. If they win, then I'm not at all happy.

This was my first night in both this house and this league. This is an established league that has apparently been around for awhile. Lots of seniors. There are 10 teams, 3 people to a team.

I do very much want to bowl with the people I am on the team with. The problem is that I think we are going to be one of the higher average teams. I can see there are a lot of seniors and women in this league with low averages.
So we're going to give away alot of pins at 100% handicap.

It didn't help our cause any that the team we bowled against also didn't have all 3 of their people the first night, and used a 120 league vacancy, which of course, is used in figuring the handicap. I have complained about this many, many times in the past as well. When a team doesn't have all their players, why does it always become their opponents problem? They either use a 120 vacancy in figuring handicap like they did to us, or during the regular season, they get rewarded with a sub, who 99% of the time has a higher average and bowls better than the missing bowler, in my experience.

I'm probably goig to try one or two more weeks at least, because I do like the people I'm bowling with. But I just have a horrible feeling about 100% handicap. I also still can't seem to figure out how, even giving 100% handicap the first night while establishing averages, we can beat them all4 games and they win all 4 by handicap. We didn't give them more than we beat them by, so I'm totally confused there.

And I didn't go to the captains meeting, as I am not the captain, and I'm not even sure if there was one. There was a very short speech by the league secrertary between practice and starting bowling, and they handed out some papers. Took about a minute and a half. Maybe that was the meeting in question. It was mostly "welcome back" stuff. Again, I'm not a captain and I wasn't paying much attention.

Part of the reason I'm so mad about this is that I feel like I was totally blindsided by it.

Hi Broncobilly. I think you need to find out a bit more about the league's Constitution. I believe that every bowler should be given a copy or, at least, have it made available for your viewing. It is not usual to have established team averages the first night unless the constitution states otherwise (like using the previous season book averages) and the scores and averages are established after a minimum of three weeks (9 games) of competition and then applied retrospectively. Whatever the case.. check it out first. If you feel that the handicap system is not going to give you a chance of winning the league (if that is your intention) then you can use it for good game scoring practice and improving your average. Have a talk with your team-mates as well.. they may feel a little differently.
As for the 100% system.. I bowl in a league operating this way and we have very few problems. Currently there is only one scratch bowler and his team are low handicappers... they do just as well as any team in the league. Interestingly, it was the scratch bowlers that set up the current system!
Whatever happens, enjoy your bowling, especially if you enjoy bowling with your team-mates.
Good luck.
Allan

Camper, I'm wondering why the league went to 100% handicap instead of just raising the handicap level to 90% of 230.

Angel, you have some really good ideas for your Jrs. And bowling with bowlers that are at a lower skill level gives your upper level Jrs a chance to share what they've learned.

Higher average bowlers were not just hatched. They had to learn and practise and work to get better. Its the same opportunity everyone has. If you cannot do so due to finances, time constraints or other hobbies/sports (which I understand) then that doesn't mean you have earned an equal 100% level playing field. It only encourages sandbagging and discouragaes improvement. What kind of sport is that?

Erin

Bronco, just keep in mind that if you end up quitting this league you usually have to give two weeks written notice to the officers of the league. You don't want to leave and do so breaking any rules. So check out USBC's rules about leaving a leauge and then consult the league's rules about it.

Erin

"It is not usual to have established team averages the first night unless the constitution states otherwise"

I don't know about all that. This league is an established league, and I gather it has been around for awhile and many of the people are returning regulars. Many seniors. Somebody did ask us if we bowled in this league last year. None of us did. So they probably are using book averages from last year for those who bowled in the league last year. Again, though, they used a 120 vacancy due to missing player.

I do know that out of 4 leagues here - 2 that I bowled in last year and 2 that I'll be bowling in this year - 3 of them count averages and win/losses the first night. The argument for doing this is that if you don't, people sandbag and don't bowl their real averages since the wins and losses the first night don't count. I think most of the leagues here are doing this now. The one of the 4 leagues that didn't do it was a company sponsored "fun league" that I bowled in last year. Most of the people in that league are in it for fun, about half the people in that league probably have averages under 100. And a couple of the
better teams in that league were asking to have wins and losses count the first night in that league, too, this year.

"If you feel that the handicap system is not going to give you a chance of winning the league (if that is your intention) then you can use it for good game scoring practice and improving your average."

Well, here's the deal. I'll be bowling in 2 leagues this year. I was fortunate for this league to be with 2 other people who are very skilled bowlers. My average is in the 170's, and both of them are higher than me. One is much higher than me, over 220. So I kind of felt, yes, this would be the league I wanted to at least have a decent chance to win with this team.

The other league I am starts this monday. For that league, I don't have a team. They guys I was bowling with were guys from work. One took a new job and left the company, the other is his best friend, and I think was only bowling because his friend was. So neither of them are returning. So I have no team, and am signing up as an individual. I do not know what team I will be, or who with. I do know fro mlast year that there are 4 extremely good teams in that league. (None of whom needed a guy). I figure I will proabably get put on a team with whoever else happens to sign up - and they will probably be low average bowlers. But I had a great time in this league last year and wanted to come back. So I had already resigned myself to using THIS league as the practice and "skill building" for the other league, where I knew I had better team mates.

I'd like to have a decent chance to win a league, yes. Nothing is guaranteed, I know. Nor should it be. But to have NO chance is a real de-motivator for me. A fair chance is all I ask.

I'm concerned about the 100% because I think we are definitely one of the higher average teams and I know we will be giving away alot of pins every week. The ususal wisdom with 85% handicap is "The more pins you're giving away, the better off you are" because of the pins you're holding. But I think this simply not true with 100% handicap. In fact, with 100% handicap, I'd say the more pins you're giving away, the worse off you are.

Somebody with a 100 average needs 1 mark to make thier average. Even with my 170 average, I need 7 to 8. So there is much more room for them to bowl over average, and much more room to "get lucky". And low average bowlers always tend to have big swings in their 3 games. My wife, who bowls twice a year and averages about 85, will bowl 65, 137, 83. With 100% handicap, I'd be giving her 85 pins and if she bowled a 137 I'd need to bowl 222 just to tie. A 137 is 4 marks out of 10 frames. Relatively simple. 222 is how many marks? I have to fill every frame and double twice probably. So I think we're guaranteed to lose a whole of games we otherwise wouldn't.

This is my concern.