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#31631 - 05/04/06 10:03 AM Re: BALLS!! help
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1861
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
I agree with Erin and Smooth.

While choosing the right ball for the right condition has become a big (to big if you ask me) part of the game, I'm not really convinced that a ball change would be the solution here.

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Registered: 27/08/04
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#31632 - 05/04/06 10:34 AM Re: BALLS!! help
Zackneden Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 46
A/S/L: 30/m/florida
OK, I guess thats what I should have expected. Let me start by saying, As always I appreciate all input and advice. Sooo, I'm not looking for excalibur or magic beans or anything like that. I'm just looking to add a couple of options. I dont think that carrying 3 or 4 balls (1 being a plastic for spares) is unreasonable.
I have been competing 1 sport or another my whole life, I believe in learning proper fundamentals, working hard, practicing, finding proper instruction etc... that is all a process. I went to the tournament to see where I was at, and I have a ways to go. I have been bowling for just over a year, so i wasnt terribly dissapointed with how I bowled. But I felt like it was just too wet for me to get to the pocket as strongly as I would have liked. How I know it was not resembling the league patterns is that I bowl league in that house. And the shot was nothing like I have seen there or in the 2 other houses I practice in locally.
Smooth, I was leaving 4's and 4-8s from several different lines. It was only a 3 game set but I tried moving feet and changing targets. I was coming in light from many different lines. I bowled 216-178-187 living primarily on spares. We switched pairs every game and I was never really able to get comfortable.
The fact of the matter is that being a decent league bowler means very little if you dont test yourself elsewhere as far as I'm concerned. I would just like to have some options if I know the shot i need to throw is going to be difficult for me with the 1 ball I carry.
I am reading as much as I can about balls, drilling and conditions to understand the physics of the game along with learing proper technique. Unfortunately it is a complicated game and that too takes time.
Thanks for all of your input, I'll continue to work and learn and hopefully in time get better and better.
PS, the guy that drills my balls (normally) just finished his second senior event. Dave didnt cash this week, but keep your eye out for him and wish him the best. Rookie of the year? haha, i'm hoping. He was leading after the first day last week, here's his big smiling mug last week if your interested.
http://www.pbatour.com/news/features.asp?ID=4535
_________________________
A man who thinks he can and a man who thinks he can't are both right. Which one are you?

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#31633 - 05/04/06 10:56 AM Re: BALLS!! help
Zackneden Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 46
A/S/L: 30/m/florida
To better explain, I used to play golf at a pretty competeive level. I carried 4 wedges in my bag and sacrificed a long club or 2. Not because I COULDNT manufacture shots with 2 wedges but because I wanted the maximum number of options in the area of the game that mattered most. short game mattered most.
In bowling I understand spares wear a white hat, but you have to find a way to score. I feel more options cant do anything but help as long as you know your equipment and are switching for a reason, not taking a shot in the dark hoping another ball will fix it.
But again, I am a beginner and my opinions may be flawed or all together wrong.
That's why these forums are so valuable. sorry for typing so many words.
_________________________
A man who thinks he can and a man who thinks he can't are both right. Which one are you?

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#31634 - 05/04/06 12:18 PM Re: BALLS!! help
Chris Cenotti Offline
Bracket Donator

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 162
A/S/L: 25/M/Northern California
I think the debate here stems from lack of information. That was partially cleared up with the follow up, but still without seeing the OP bowl and assesing the skill level and consistency its hard (for me) to say which side of the debate is right in this instance.

I'm in a place now where I'm building my fundamentals. Pretty soon I'll start getting into the realm of multiple balls for varying conditions, but the truth is that if I had more than one ball right now or 3 months ago it would be overkill. First of all, it'd be one more variable to try and play with and confuse me when the real problem is basic skills. Second, as much as I complain that the house I've been bowling in doesn't take care of the lanes, relative to a sport or PBA shot, the lanes are pretty much the same every week. Sure there may be a little more or less oil, dirty or clean backends, but no variations that moving 5 boards lef/right can't fix.

That said, I can see myself toward the end of this summer venturing into the tournament world. Possibly being ready for a sport shot league in the fall. At that point, I think I'll need 1-2 more balls to match the new conditions I'll be seeing. As I progress further in the coming years onto various PBA shots, I'll need a couple more balls because I'll be seeing new patterns.

Will a new ball help? If its a pattern/condtion that is significantly different than what you're used to, then yeah, consider getting one of the recommended balls. But if you're still struggling with consistency on a house shot, then it might be best to wait on bowling new conditions altogether so you have one less factor to deal with when trying to win/place in those tournaments.

Chris

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#31635 - 05/04/06 01:10 PM Re: BALLS!! help
ExBronxiteBowler Offline
PBA Senior Bowler

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 555
A/S/L: M 56 Staten Island, NY
Actually Smooth, in my experience, PBA lane conditions generally have LESS oil than a house shot, but its distrubuted on the lanes differently than a house shot. There is no great Jaun Valdez oil slick in the middle, and the outsides are not the Sahsra desert. Couple the oil pattern used with the slickness of the Brunswick oil the PBA uses and lanes will seem to be a lot tighter than a house shot. On the other hand, Pattern 2 on wood hooks a lot more than Pattern 2 on AMF or Brunswick synthetics. You have to watch where the bowlers who are bowling well are playing, and then try and get into the same area pf the lane.

Again, you must have a solid foundation to do the above. If you cannot repeat shots, then no bowling ball is going to make you better. Your inablility to repeat shots may be masked by a house pattern with the right setup, but take down the wall, and your scores will plumment greatly.

You should learn 3 different speeds, with 3 different release, and 3 different lofts. If you can do that, then you will be well on your way to becoming a complete player.

Still, if you think a new ball will make your scores go up. maybe it will, and maybe it won't. If your current ball is ill-fitting, then yes your scores will go up. If your equipment fits you properly, and you aren't willing to adjust your line, and you buy a ball so you can play a particular line on a house pattern, then no, your skill level will not increase.

enough babbling for now smile
_________________________
Scores are all relative to the scoring pace of the lane condition. This means if everyone and thier brother is striking, you better strike, if no one is stringing strikes, keep the ball in play and make your spares.

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#31636 - 05/04/06 01:22 PM Re: BALLS!! help
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 1861
A/S/L: 36 / M / Rochester, NY
Zackneden - Can you explain where you were standing, where you were aiming and where your ball went out to and how it reacted? Can you also explain what you tried to do to adjust and where else you tried to play?

That might help provide the missing information.

Since you brought up golf, a good analogy to make Erin's point about having wake up call is the following..

Imagine you played golf all the time, and at the course they put up nets along the fairway that would redirect the balll back into play if you hit it left or right. Also imagine that all the pin placements were in locations that funneled the ball to the hole.

Now imagine getting used to those conditions and then the nets comming down and the pin positions being moved to where you had to make an accurate put.

Once the nets come down, accuracy is going to be much more important that club selection. If you're hitting a 2 fairway slice, there's not much that's going to help you wink

The same goes with bowling. If you're not consistantly hitting 1 or 2 boards (sometimes you might get lucky and find 3) on a non house shot, you're going to pay the price.

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#31637 - 05/04/06 01:39 PM Re: BALLS!! help
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4148
A/S/L: 42/F/California
Having multiple equipment and knowing when you use your e****ent is a huge step to take.

Its totally common for tournament shots to be different then the house league shot. The lane guy knows that there will be mostly reactive balls played all about at the same area. Not like in leauge, where you have maybe 50% plastic played up the middle or off the gutter. So a higher volume of oil might have been his solution to keep the Hi hook players from being on the Mohave Desert by mid game 2. Without putting down a sport or PBA condition.

Plus we dont' know what your solution was for the oily condition besides just moving. Did you move outside with feet and target? Did you slow down your ball speed? Did you target closer to yourself in an effort to get the ball into an earlier roll? Just a few things that at your given profiled average, you should start thinking about. The scores you posted were great for the adverse condition. I remember my first Men's Naitonals at the Stadium. I had never seen a place like that or condition like that and came out of the box with a 119.

Erin

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#31638 - 05/04/06 01:59 PM Re: BALLS!! help
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 4148
A/S/L: 42/F/California
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA"> We switched pairs every game and I was never really able to get comfortable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">This is very common in tournaments and the whole idea is exactly as you stated. No one gets all that comfortable. So the object is who can get as comfortable as possible the quickest. It also shows you that each lane plays individually. Which means that you almost always have to change where your feet and target are each lane you walk onto. It may only be a board or two, but that's the difference between hitting the pocket and striking.

If you only have an R43 (which is a Quantum in disquise) made by Brunswick for Elite, I'd get a spare ball as your #2 purchase.

Erin

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#31639 - 05/04/06 03:49 PM Re: BALLS!! help
lorok Offline
Team USA Hopeful

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 482
A/S/L: 30/male/albuquerque
i just want to clarify... i do agree with erin and everyone else, versatility is key. that and consistancy are worth all the balls in the world. i'd imagine that if you put me vs. norm duke on the lane with my choice of ball and lane condition and him with a plastic ball, he'd whoop the pants off me.

i do remember the first time i saw a heavy shot. here i am, 170 average bowler with nothing in the bag but Ebonite's "the one." i played on a sport shot for the first time ever with that ball. i tried to play my usual favorite line, ball skated. moved right, target right, ball skated. then (i was pretty new at the time) i started fiddlin' around with releases, trying to get more axis tilt for more backend, trying to have more forward roll for more arc etc. i adjusted my speed. i adjusted my targetting depth. i ended up pointing the ball off the 5 board and there may have been a wrinkle at the backend worth of hook.

when i made a good shot, i'd hit the pocket. but i left so many 5's and 5-7's it made my head hurt. that was the first time i HAD to try to be versatile. i practiced different things all the time, but on that shot with that ball, it was a different world. so on the one hand, it was very beneficial for me to implement some of the knowledge i'd gained here. on the other, had that been a tournament where scoring mattered, i'd definatly would have wanted a ball with some surface.

my point in the original post was based on my feelings the first time that i, loaded with knowledge, played a condition that i didn't have covered. that was the day that i learned that lane conditions do matter, and they matter alot. it's a big wake up call. i bet i could play that same shot today with the same ball and easily bust a 600 though, so...

i guess that i feel that an additional ball or two can somewhat compensate for what you lack in experience. that's the what it all came down to for me. if you continue to seek out different shots to play with what you can do, you will get better on harder shots. practice and experience are the real key. but another ball won't hurt in the meantime.
_________________________
the time it took to write this signature would have been better spent bowling.

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#31640 - 05/05/06 08:37 AM Re: BALLS!! help
Zackneden Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 46
A/S/L: 30/m/florida
All good advice and ideas, Erin I do have a spare ball (target zone)when I referred to one ball I meant 1 strike ball.
I agree with a lot of what was said, what I really lack is experience. The problem with that is until nobody has any until they go out and get some. One thing that stuck out in all of this is speed control. I have to work on being comfortable slowing the ball down. It doesnt feel right because I dont work on it.
I'm going to keep working, go to tournaments when I can, and over the summer leagues add 1 ball. I just heard about a sport trio this summer at a house I dont bowl at much I'm going to take my time with that, hopefully my Pro Shop guy will be in town some and we can talk about it.
Thanks for all of the input. Lefty that was a good analogy, made a lot of sense.
_________________________
A man who thinks he can and a man who thinks he can't are both right. Which one are you?

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