BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#27454 - 03/02/05 05:34 PM Drilling layouts
mdmjdm Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 221
A/S/L: 40/m/MD
I am starting to notice what I think is a pretty disturbing trend in my area when it comes to drilling patterns.

Last night I decided to see if I could see a trend among a few bowlers I know who have similar styles. One is my teammate (a lefty..plays down and in), and he brings two balls to league every week. BOTH are resin and drilled with a 6 inch pin position...right next to his finger holes. He wondered why we always got approximately the same reaction from each ball.

Another friend of mine brings 4 balls with him to league. Also a down and in lefty, guess what the drill pattern is on ALL FOUR balls he brings. Yup, you got it...6 inch pin...next to the finger holes.

That got me wondering.."how many people get this drill pattern given to them without question?"

I checked with two other bowlers in the league, two crankers (righties), and one other lefty (tweener). SIX MORE BALLS ALL DRILLED WITH THE SAME PATTERN. In case you are counting, that is a total of 12 balls among 5 bowlers...ALL WITH THE SAME PATTERN.

Here is my concern with what I saw: These guys are pretty good bowlers. But, they do not understand why they are having problems carrying the corner pins, and they can't see why changing balls has little effect. They are throwing balls designed to go deep and hook late...and there is too much oil for them to do it.

They have been told by their driller that "this new ball of yours will solve your problems...it will react better"...yet he gives them yet another ball with the same layout. It might be a "little" different, but with the same layout, it has the same "style" to it.

It has convinced me to get back into a Pro Shop and start drilling again. Back before I took my 9 year break, I kept a file on almost all of my customers (which included what balls they had AND how they were drilled). When they walked in, I would check their "arsenal" and see what might be missing.

I will say this: If I saw one of my customers owning 3 balls with the same drill pattern...I would AT LEAST point it out to him before I drilled another the exact same way.

What are these guys trying to do? Get everyone to buy more equipment? (Because the last one wasn't the "magic" solution they were told it would be?)

Sorry I rambled...it just frustrates me. Local pros and ball drillers are supposed to help EDUCATE their customers...not lead them on a wild goose chase.

John
_________________________
Cover your spares...the strikes will still be there when you get back.

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#27455 - 03/02/05 11:02 PM Re: Drilling layouts
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Well, in all fairness, most bowlers don't know enough to ask pertinent questions concerning their fit and drill pattern. So it then it leaves the Pro Shop/driller to start wringing information from the customer that may or maynot be correct. Its not the bowlers' fault. You have to learn somehow and it takes time. You also have to take into account the ability of the driller to drill more exotic drills and still have the ball come out to legal specs.

Drill patterns can fit particular styles. I myself, get the most out of a ball with stacked leverage. I have almost all my equipment drilled like this. We have tried other patterns and some work and some don't. But I have different coverstocks and core designs that make more difference in ball reaction for me. But I do have a couple balls drilled differently. Just seems like stacked leverage always gets the most out of the ball for me.

What gets me is when I start seeing balls drilled illegally with what is obviously illegal side weight. And balls drilled for back up style bowlers where the pin is in the totally wrong side of the ball for the bowler.

Erin

Top
#27456 - 03/03/05 02:26 AM Re: Drilling layouts
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
To add.....

It is incredibly difficult for the Pro Shop business owner/driller to make a living these days. With balls coming off the internet at a higher rate then then are sold out of the Pro Shop, all the driller has to offer is his skill at plugging and drilling balls.

If the bowler cannot give them good feedback from their questions, what can you do? Plus many bring in a drilled ball, they got it used off the internet, and want it plugged and re drilled. The Pro Shop asked what they want done with the ball, and the person simply says....make it hook. From previous experience with this customer, the driller knows the pattern that has best suited the bowler in the past. They ask "do you want it like your other stuff?" "yeah". Bottom line.........Pro Shop makes $40.

$40 for a job that takes days. The Pro Shop had to pay for the resin/plugging material, the dam, the electricity to run the router, the router and its bits, drill press and appropriate jigs for ball drilling, bevel sander to finish off the holes, tri file to bevel the edges, proper glue for the vynal inserts, the inserts, the thumb slug or insert. Keeping the drill bits sharp enough so that the bridges don't crack. Correct pitch anaylsis. Its almost endless the amount of labor that goes into plugging and redrilling a ball. Yet its only $40 or so. It takes days to plug and redrill a ball. Resin has to sit, then the ball rotated and the next hole dammed and plugged.

So with all this, the Pro Shop has to make money some how. At some point, the bowler has to step in there and provide some snitch of feedback. I don't expect it from beginning or intermediate players. This is where the educating starts. But for those averaging over 200....expect it, and too few times get it. Because bowlers that see themselves as proficient in the sport know next to nothing about the sport in reality. It takes starting education way before this.

Erin

Top
#27457 - 03/03/05 07:33 AM Re: Drilling layouts
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
I agree with Erin. Every time I'm in the Pro Shop, I'm peppering them with questions about drilling patterns, ball reactions, tweaks you can make, etc.. I think they breathe a sigh of relief when I leave smile . No, they've actually said it's good to ask those questions.

Top
#27458 - 03/03/05 08:12 AM Re: Drilling layouts
mdmjdm Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 221
A/S/L: 40/m/MD
Lefty,

Good for you. I hope you pay them back with repeat business and referrals.

I didn't mean to sound nasty on Pro Shop owners as a whole...they have a VERY thankless job at times. But I think Erin hit the nail on the head about "scratch" bowlers.

MOST don't know as much about the game as they think they do. And, yes...they always give the same answer..."make it hook and carry".

That is where the Pro Shop owners miss an opportunity, in my opinion. There ARE still bowlers out there who have a "thirst for knowledge", and they do realize it is not going to be free...lessons are the next step. I actually got to the point where I made more money with that than the hourly wage the shop paid.

And, it taught me my strengths and weaknesses when it came to teaching. I am no good with beginners for some reason. Can't seem to give them a good "base" to work from...maybe it's too much pressure...lol.

I am better with "picking apart" a beter bowler's game, and finding things that can help them. MOST of the time, the points I make are mental and not physical.

Erin, one last thing about the drilling patterns: You mentioned how a shop owner would ask "Do you want it like your other stuff?...Yeah" THESE GUYS WERE ASKING FOR A CHANGE....AND ALL THEY GOT WAS A DIFFERENT BALL WITH THE SAME LAYOUT.

I think that is the part of this whole equation that frustrated me the most. The shop owner had an opporunity to share some knowledge, and he passed it by.

John
_________________________
Cover your spares...the strikes will still be there when you get back.

Top
#27459 - 03/03/05 09:31 AM Re: Drilling layouts
Lefty Offline
Legend

Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 2356
A/S/L: 37 / M / Rochester, NY
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by mdmjdm:
Lefty,

Good for you. I hope you pay them back with repeat business and referrals.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">I do. I floated around and had several different people drill my stuff for a while and I settled on the place where I am now. I acutally went to High School with the guy who's drilling my stuff, and he's a heck of a bowling talent besides knowing a lot about drilling. He has 45 300's, bowls a lot of tournaments and was PBA ROY runner up when he was on tour.

He changed my span slightly, changed the finger pitches and everything was great. I'm also real praticular about my thumb and he's the only one who's ever got it right and I didn't have to fiddle with it when he was done. My thumb is flat and wide and I have a hard time clearing the knuckle, and I've never, ever been able to throw a ball immeidately after it was punched. I can call him up, have him punch something and pick it up and go throw it in a league without worry.

And yes, I recommend him to anyone who's looking for a Pro Shop.

Top
#27460 - 03/03/05 12:33 PM Re: Drilling layouts
SnitGTS Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 67
A/S/L: 25/m/NJ
I've been bowling for a long time now and my average has kinda hit a ceiling at about 200. I thought I knew a lot about bowling, but after reading this forum the past month, I found out just how little I really knew. The past couple weeks I have been taking lessons with a local Pro Shop guy, and to be honest I'm amazed to find out how many bad habits I had! He recommended an X-Factor Ace for me to use in addition to my Fuze Detonator. He drilled the same as my Fuze, which he said is best suited for my style of bowling. With the different coverstock and core the Ace has lot more aggressive then my Fuze, which he says makes it better for the carry down conditions I encounter a lot. So is there anything wrong with having 2 different balls drilled the same way? I could understand if you had 2 of the same balls drilled differently for different conditions, but these are 2 very different balls. Yesterday I bowled 9 strikes in a practice game with the Ace, so I definately like how the ball was reacting.

P.S. I could have saved $20 buying the ball online and having him drill it, but for him putting up with me asking 100,000 questions I bought it from him.

Top
#27461 - 03/03/05 01:52 PM Re: Drilling layouts
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Unfortunately, maybe the Pro Shop person doesn't have the knowledge to give. There are people out there drilling balls that really don't know that much, or just too lazy to put more thought into it. They get a set of 5 patterns with a new ball. But there are infinant ways besides that to drill a ball, all depending on how much effort the Pro Shop guy wants to put into it. Can the Pro Shop guy watch you bowl? If not, then that's a very serious detriment to making a good decision on how to drill the ball.

Also some drill patterns just seem to work best for certain players. Sometimes a person buys a new ball at $200 and they don't want to experiment with an unfamiliar drill. Or they maybe replacing a ball in their arsental. But they could then plug and redrill that old ball with the new drill pattern as a "test" ball.

Erin

Top
#27462 - 03/04/05 01:51 PM Re: Drilling layouts
mdmjdm Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 221
A/S/L: 40/m/MD
There is nothing "wrong" with having two different balls drilled the same way...it just may limit your options on bad or unfamiliar lane conditions.

I did have the luxury of being able to watch my customers bowl. The shop I worked in was in a bowling alley, and I always asked new customers to bowl a game while I watched them. Told them to just bowl naturally...not force anything. It got me a few things...an accurate track, and an idea of how they "liked" to bowl...not how they had been "told" to do it.

They guy with the four balls all drilled alike is the best example. He mentioned to me that he couldnt seem to get any of them to turn up earlier for him. Had absolutely NO idea why...and he had asked at the shop for suggestions before he bought the 4th one.

Something tells me that the guy who drilled his equipment is either not as knowledgebale as he thinks he is or might be just plain lazy.

John
_________________________
Cover your spares...the strikes will still be there when you get back.

Top
#27463 - 03/04/05 10:06 PM Re: Drilling layouts
dcompguru Offline
Junior

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 29
A/S/L: 26/M/KY
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA"> I'm also real praticular about my thumb and he's the only one who's ever got it right and I didn't have to fiddle with it when he was done. My thumb is flat and wide and I have a hard time clearing the knuckle, and I've never, ever been able to throw a ball immeidately after it was punched. I can call him up, have him punch something and pick it up and go throw it in a league without worry. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Lefty,
I have this same problem. How did you ever solve it? I have one ball that hangs on the thumb and another that feels a little too loose. The best thing I've found is drilling it slightly bigger and putting a piece of thick cushioned tape (I don't know what it's called) in the back to make up for my flat thumb. It puts slight pressure on the back of the thumb and still lets it come off pretty cleanly. I thought about trying a thumb insert but I thought it might REALLY hang on the thumb then.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Fall/Winter 2018-19 Leagues Thread
by jsigone - Yesterday at 01:03 PM
Mo Pinel "Striking Effectively In Today's Game"
by BOSStull - 10/14/18 06:16 AM
Buying new house shoes.
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:58 AM
Storm/Roto Grip MatchMaker Live
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:44 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.