rolling Pin, not saying that what you do is wrong, if you can stroke on dry lanes and crank on wet lanes then more power to you. Usually it's the other way around. Usually Crankers perform better on Drier lanes because they can overpower the lanes where a stroker can't generate enough speed to overpower the lanes. And a stroker usually will bowl better on oily lanes because a cranker has more trouble getting the ball to turn over on oily lanes where the stroker excels because they can play the lanes straighter the way they like to. Are you a high speed Stroker? Or do you fluff the ball down the lanes on the dry stuff.

I find your observations very interesting, Smooth Stroker. First of all, I am a high speed stroker, because when the lanes are dry, I often play straight with lower revs and a lot of ball speed. And unless the oil is super, super, heavy, I usually have no trouble cranking the ball and getting it back to the pocket. I never considered that the reverse could be true for some players. When the lanes are very dry, however, my cranker shot is next to useless (all standard adjustments taken into consideration). My ball will often hook halfway down the floor, and in order to keep it on the right side of the head pin I must throw so hard I'm pulled off balance. (Assuming I can't find an oil line inside, of course, which has been the case on my lanes lately, with the middle being bone dry and little oil outside.) My revs are almost the same as a thumbless bowler, due to the large amount of hand action I put into the ball on release. With my stroker shot, however, I can get the ball to hold line better due to less revs and a simpler hand release that doesn't take as much speed off my shot. I've actually never heard that crankers prefer dry and strokers prefer oil in general. Most of the crankers I know prefer oil. I'm not sure about the strokers. If you think I'm doing things wrong, or that there is a better way, let me know. I am always seeking to improve my game through good advice.

Well, when you say that you are a high speed stroker, are you just changing your release but everything else stays the same? Or do you change your whole style? To me a stroker doesn't muscle the ball but allows the weight of the ball to dictate ball speed. Just because you are playing the lanes straight, I would hesitate to call you a stroker. If you are still flaming the ball down the lane, then you are probably still muscling the ball. Strokers don't muscle the ball. If you can score the way you are bowling, then keep it up. I don't want to tell you what you are doing is wrong. As long as you can repeat shots and score well then you are doing something right.

The reason I say that Crankers prefer to have the lanes dry is because most crankers like to play way left if you are a righty. The only way to play way left is if you have some dry boards to bank the ball off of. If the lanes are real wet and you play way left, you run the risk of having your ball skid past the breakpoint. Look at the PBA. When the lane conditions dictate that the bowlers play over by the gutter because the middle is too wet, the strokers excel. When the shot is going coast to coast, crankers excel. When the lanes dry out, the strokers have to move in because their gutter shot is dried up. Their ball moves too much and they don't have enough ball speed to compensate. Crankers can just turn up the juice because they muscle the ball anyway. Just throw harder. Overpower the lanes. It happens every tournament I enter. I'm always near the top of the leaderboard when the lanes are nice and fresh. When the lanes really breakdown, I drop a lot. Because I can't overpower the lanes like the crankers can. If I have to play 4th to 5th arrow and beyond, I can score, but not well enough to win yet. Not enough ball speed.

If Walter Ray's shot dries up, he has to move in not out. If Duke's shot dries up by the gutter, he starts to really hook it not stroke it. When Mike Machuga's gutter stroker shot dried up, he moved way in and started to really hook the ball. The reason is because he now had some dry boards to bank the ball off of.

I think you're a right. I don't think I have a true muscle-free swing when I stroke the ball. My arm is not tense, but I do use physical strength to overpower the conditions. I do not let the weight of the ball dicate my swing, it now appears. I was calling myself a stroker because I do play very straight (sometimes with my normal cranker shot, and sometimes with my other, simpler release using mostly fingers). But based on your definitions, I suppose I am just a cranker that adjusts his shot. And when the outsides of the lane are heavily oiled, that doesn't bother me too much because I adjust my arm swing to keep the ball more inside. My lanes are often like that. My problem area is dry lanes--even though I can overpower them I still struggle more than on oil. By the way, why can't you switch to a less aggressive ball and still play the gutter? I've seen Norm Duke do this very successfully.

I already use the weakest ball I can find outside of plastic and urethane. I am rev dominate. That is I produce more revs than ball speed.

It seems we have a similiar problem, Smooth Stroker. Not long ago, my lanes got a nice coat of oil for a couple of weeks. Not heavy, but enough to work with. I put up six straight 600 series, including three over 650. That's good bowling for me. But my last two leagues have been terrible. The lanes have been horridly dry. Last night I put up a 549. Even though I overpowered the lanes, my carry was bad. Also, there was no real oil line anywhere to work with. However, my 549 was the second best series on our pair, with one guy just beating me out! I too have begun tournaments with lofty scores, only to begin struggling as the lanes dry out. I am working hard to try to develop ways to deal with dry lanes (my "B" game). Like your shot, my normal cranker shot is not super fast, and many times I simply cannot use it and stay on the right side of the head pin. If I try to throw too hard with it, I lose control and balance, often pulling the ball sharply left.

Keep in mind that when you use your thumb in the ball with a crank shot, the principles are still the same as a thumbless crank shot.

A proper hook ball requires that the thumb be out, or almost out of the ball at the point of release. If you don't, then you end up with a helicopter spin.

At the very bottom of your down-swing, when the ball is about to leave your hand, the ball should be rolling off of your thumb while you are turning your hand into the release to achieve hook.

Out of curiousity to a earlier reply by Smooth Stroker, what type of form does have the most titles? Stroker, Cranker, Tweener, or no-thumb?

Strokers and power strokers have won the most titles. Crankers have done well, but haven't won as many titles. The reason for this is that pure crankers have a hard time matching up to some lane conditions, whereas guys like Norm Duke or Walter Ray can adapt more fluidly. Tommy Jones is somewhat of a rarity--a cranker that seems to do as well as the great strokers of the sport. So is cranking inferior? In the area of versitility, it seems to be a bit lacking compared to the stroker shot. Crankers try to match equipment to the changing lanes, but often find themselves up the creek without a paddle--such as Robert Smith when he is lofting the ball WAY over the left gutter. Patrick Allen used to put a lot of action into his ball before he turned pro. Now he almost always plays straight up the boards with a simple release. Why did he make that change? I think he had to in order to be the winner he is. The more the curve of your ball path, the longer the path, and the more chance for problems. So that's undoubtedly why crankers have not fared as well on the PBA tour. And I suppose I should mention the greatest player ever--Earl Anthony. He won his 41 titles in half the time it has taken Walter Ray, with a low rev, slow speed style.

The cranker shot does work well at times. For league bowlers and in various tournaments, it can be quite favorable. The cranker shot may still be evolving since the glory days of Mark Roth as conditions and equipment change, and Tommy Jones may be the next Roth or even the next Anthony. Time will tell.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Crankers try to match equipment to the changing lanes, but often find themselves up the creek without a paddle--such as Robert Smith when he is lofting the ball WAY over the left gutter. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Or when Mr. Smith wins tournaments throwing a back up ball because his cranker ball wasn't fitting up to the lane conditions.

Erin