I have been reading a lot of posts in the past two months (i haven't really felt the need for myself to post until now) and i have found many people have a similar problem as myself, but i still can't seem to find an answer.

I am a right handed bowler, though i naturally throw a reverse hook. i use a 12 pound ball, and i do not use any wrist guards or pads or anything like that. after league nights, (i bowl two leagues per week) my middle and ring fingers' knuckles are extremely swollen. it is very visible that they are larger than normal, and they are also sore until i soak them in ice for a couple days. i have been to my doctor, who says both of my knuckles were sprained. (i let them heal for two weeks)

Now I use medical tape wrapped around my knuckles when i bowl, which alleviates the swelling a bit. however, i have been to three different pro shops who have looked at my ball, the grips, how i release, etc etc. i have had the span changed, larger holes drilled, etc etc. with changes made, i still have swollen knuckles! so since this is such a mystery to me, i was wondering if anyone else has this problem even AFTER their ball was re-drilled and they took the advice of others?

Thanks guys--7PQ

Have you asked for any help in changing from the reverse hook delivery? I know that in some instances it seems to be a natural delivery for some but if you are helping the reverse roll at all it could produce an abnormal amount of torque on your fingers. I say this could be an issue because you seem to have tried other remedies.

I recently observed a coach at our center (on the pair next to me) working with a guy to throw conventionally instead of a reverse hook. He didn't seem to be a particulary great bowler, but he picked up the new delivery style pretty quickly. I don't think he would have been able to do it without the help of the coach, though. The coach had to literally hold his arm and guide it throughout the delivery several times. The big difference is the follow through. You have to re-train your arm to finish on the right side of your face instead of the left (I am assuming you are right-handed when I say this). I would try it if I were you -- I can't imagine bowling in pain all of the time.

Women seem to be more likely to throw an untrained reverse hook due to the more angulation of their forearm/elbow.

The easiest way to get out of this is to use your thumb as a guide. The ball will go in the direction your thumb is pointing. If you end up palm up thumb pointing to 1 or 2:00 then you've thrown a reverse hook. Its not a style that allows for a lot of leverage or power in your release.

Erin

So I should try ditching the reverse hook and start over with a right hand hook?
That's the only thing I haven't tried (or thought of), so thanks for the advice =D.

ATOCHABSH: When I release, my palm IS up and my thumb points to 1...you may not be able to tell me this, but for a right hand hook, where should my palm and thumb be at release? ((I have heard some people explain that it should look like you are getting ready to shake someone's hand, with your thumb pointing upwards))

Sorry if I sound like a real novice, it's just hard since I have never changed before.

My wife used to throw a reverse hook because of her double-jointedness, as Erin said, most commonly found in women. I believe your best solution would be to find a coach to teach you how to throw with normal rotation. It took my wife a single 1-hour lesson to learn it and just a few weeks before she was completely broken of the "back-up ball". I'm not sure if this is the cause of your swollen knuckles problem but I would be inclined to believe it is a contributing factor.

Your ball will go in the direction your thumb points. So if you want to throw a right to left hook your thumb is going to need to be pointing more towares 10 to 11:00 with your palm facing more towards your legs or the lane to the left of you.

You may never have thrown a football in a spiral. But if you have then try throwing it underhanded still spiraling it. That's about the closest analogy I can come up with. Your fingers do the work, not twisting your arm or wrist.

The problem I've seen with the "shaking hands" visual, is that in action its just too close to the reverse hook and your hand will just flop over to what's comfortable. You should also make sure that you are holding the ball in the beginning of your stance, NOT in front of your body, but to the side, like the side of your hip. And try starting it with the ball resting in the pad of your hand right below your index finger, and your wrist straight not bent back. Support the weight of the ball with the opposite hand, slightly under it.

Erin

Thanks for the help guys, I have a coach i'm good friends with and a lesson set up for tomorrow.

I agree with one of the previous postings. I believe the problem lies within your release and your technique of a reverse ball. I have seen many different techniques and bowling methods during my bowling years, however awkward and unorthodoxed techniques of rolling the ball may injure a bowler. Releasing awkwardly may cause injuries to your back, hamstrings, and most commonly are your wrist and fingers. The knuckle sprains that you are suffering are not very common, and thus you should be careful not to reinjure yourself. I recommend having a few friends, fellow league bowlers, or anyone with a regular orthodoxed release to teach you the regular way to bowl, you will see that the pain in your fingers will go away and your injuries will stop....calasysts around the fingers will happen regardless of any throw. But sprains in your knuckles can be avoided. Hope it helps, and good luck learning a new throw...

Hey 7PQ

We're now tomorrow and yesterday you said you had a lesson set up for tommorow, so let us know how your lesson went today (which yesterday was tomorrow, if you see what I mean )

I'm interested, too. How'd it go, Queen?

I absolutely suck.
My friend/coach, Bruce, was very patient with my gutter balls for most of the five games I bowled. My knuckles were still swelling a bit, but they are not as bad as usual.
He showed me how he wants me to release as a right hand hook, but I just can't seem to get it right without him up on the lane guiding me through it.
I kept throwing it and it went straight into the right gutter (mainly because I couldn't get out of my reverse hook habit)
The very few 'good' balls I threw were strikes, actually--right in the 1-3 pocket. My thumb finished at about 10:30 and my palm was facing down, not up, which is what I need to be practicing on.
Bruce said I should invest in a wrist guard, but I wanted more than one persons' opinion. He also told me I'm not going to learn this overnight, though it's so frustrating especially on league nights.

It took me an entire summer as a JR to unlearn my backup ball. it is not easy and it will not happen in one lesson.

Ask your coach about the football spiral thing. Get a football and underhand spiral it.

Also I personally don't see a wrist guard as helping you to NOT throw a back up ball. Because a backup ball is usually controled by your elbow and forearm, not your wrist. BUT, most ladies have weaker wrists and keeping a firm somewhat straight wrist (vs breaking back your wrist) is something else you are going to have to learn while you make this change. He may have that thought tucked back in his head as far as your progress is concerned. But I don't think a wrist guard will be a magic pill for eliminating the back up ball. Also ask him about what kind of wrist guard. Because the heavy duty plastic ones and the Moongoose require that your hand be measured for your ball fit while wearing them. Those types of heaby duty braces effect the span. I would start out with a less dramatic guard. The Ebonite glove with the bar on the top only and a wrap around fully at your wrist. Columbia and Master make a similar glove. Right now, IMO, you need to learn the feel of this new release and those plastic "bionic" gloves do not allow for that. Just my .02

Erin

Thanks for the help guys.
I have another lesson set up for later in the week. However, for my league nights I think I'm going to stick with my reverse hook, I don't want to let my team down by practicing something new on the nights when it really counts.

7 pin Queen,
Hang on to that reverse hook, a back up player almost never misses a 10 pin spare. Think in terms of 2 releases, your spare release and now your are learning a more effective strike release.I have also read where the 1--2 pocket can be a higher % strikes for right handed player. There are times when the right side of lanes are all messed up but the left is still untouched so use your reverse hook, and make us right hook players think we wish we could do that.
There is a difference between a reverse hook and just a weak back up ball.
You may wind up being a very versatile player!
Dianne

Nothing will ever be learned or relearned if you don't practise it. I dont' know how many times you practise during the week, but if its only once, and then you go right back and continue throwing a backup ball during league the new information will not be easily set in your memory. In fact it could hurt and defeat the purposes of lessons to be going back and forth.

Erin

Thanks Dianne & Erin--
Last night (with my backup) I had a 633 set (usually I'm in the 475-500's). The lanes were medium oil, and that's my best condition to play anyway. I do practice at least three times a week, so hopefully learning a new release and converting to my backup ball for leagues won't hurt me too much.
7PQ.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by 7 PinQueen:
Thanks for the help guys.
I have another lesson set up for later in the week. However, for my league nights I think I'm going to stick with my reverse hook, I don't want to let my team down by practicing something new on the nights when it really counts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">

i disagree with you guys,i use to throw a backup ball and changed to throwing a hook,its not good to switch back and forth,you will never learn not to throw backup ball.

My wife used to throw a back-up ball. Average was around 130. I taught her to roll modified hook (or curve) by having her visulize slidding a suitcase down the alley. Her average went to 169 with a high series of 656. This was ten years ago. She has since given up bowling as she cannot stand the smoke in the bowling alleys.
Tom

Sometimes I guess it could be handy to have that type of shot in your arsenal. A lot of times the right side of the lane can get pretty dry in a hurry when you have two 4-man teams of right-handers bowling on your pair. There have been nights I wished I was left-handed. While the right side is fried, the left side has basically a virgin shot. I've seen some reverse hook bowlers throwing quite pronouced 10 to 15 board hooks that crush the rack. There's one guy in our Sunday night league that shoots his 10-pins like that. I'm not a reverse hook bowler. I tried it once and got a very anemic 2 to 3 board fade from it. My normal right-to-left strike shot covers about 15 to 20 boards (depending on lane conditions). As long as you're consistent and the ball has enough power to carry a strike, keep the reverse shot handy when you need it, but definitely learn the conventional right-to-left hook.