I have a question/comment about "posting the shot" that I asked on another thread, but it hasn't gotten a response yet and I practice every Sunday morning, so I thought I'd ask it on its own.

About two weeks ago, I started working on getting my trailing-leg foot onto the approach at the end of my delivery, rather than hovering it (which I've always done). Last Sunday, I asked a coach to take a look at me, and his first comment was that it looked like I was bending my slide knee too much. This was getting my bowling hand too close to the lane at release, he thought, so, subconsciously, I was flaring my arm out and around on the downswing, causing me to top the ball.

I told him about my project to get my foot down, and he said that's fine if it works, but we're all different, and it didn't seem to work for my body. I went back to my old delivery and began making better shots immediately.

Now...I have legs that are relatively short for the length of my torso, and my arms are relatively long. (I'm not tall--just 5'8".) My guess is that these proportions make it better for me to hover my trailing leg...and would make it similarly so for other folks with similar proportions.

What do you think? Is it worth continuing to try to get my foot down to properly "post the shot," or should I accept that my body wasn't designed to do that and just do what comes naturally? Thanks for your thoughts.

One thing about lowering your body. You need to lower from the hips. Perhaps you are getting your bowling hand too close to the lane because you are bending your back to assist you in getting lower. Your spine should be about 7 degrees of "tilt". That's not much. So if you think of yourself as lowering your hips into your knee bend and not bending your back, that might help. Another issue, maybe you are dropping your bowling shoulder too much. Though I'd think the coach that watched you would have picked up on that pretty quickly.

And of course the coach is right. What works for some, or even most, does not work for all. If you can keep the trail leg hovering, that's better then probably 75% of bowlers I see out there. But if you want to further explore your trail leg extension, try to keep your back straighter and lower at the hips. And remember to stay down at the line....no popping up. Keep your shoulders level or bowling shoulder slightly dropped.

You can help control the shoulders by the position of your balance arm. If your balance arm is up high waving to the ceiling, then of course your other shoulder must be dropped. So concentrating on where your balance arm is, can also help keep your body aligned.

One piece of bad news....you are 56. You may not have the flexability to get much lower at the line without injury. So be careful in what you are working on. Take it easy and try not to force anything, thus hurting yourself.

Erin

Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed reply, Erin. I'll work on your suggestions this morning and let you know how it goes.

And thanks, too, for the caution. Yes, I'm 56, but I work out a lot and have plenty of leg strength and flexibility, so I think I'll be okay. (Of course, I have to do a pre-practice warmup and stretching routine that I didn't have to bother with when I was 16!)

Okay, here's an update: Practice went well. I was hitting my target board consistently, and when I misssed, it was by only 1/2-1 board. I was also in better balance at the line, although I don't think I got my foot onto the approach as often as I wanted to. That'll be something to focus on next time.

The effort to lower from the hips and keep my back more upright seemed to help everything stay in better alignment. (Does that seem reasonable?) Maybe it helped my release, too, because I noticed that it was pretty clean for the first couple of games (209, 230-something)--no topping the ball. By the third game, fatigue started to affect things (partly from the effort of learning the new mechanics, partly 'cause my cat woke me up twice last night!).

I told the coach what I was working on, and he took a look at me and liked what he saw. So...thanks, again, Erin! It's going to take awhile to integrate the changes, but this feels like a good direction in which to be going.

Well, you probably experienced not only phsyical fatigue but also mental fatigue. But that's OK. If you can strongly commit yourself to your goals in each practise session then you have done what most cannot.

The lowering of your body and not over bending your back, puts you in a much greater leverage position. So if it felt like the ball was coming off your hand cleaner, it was probably due to the effortlessness the position was giving you in your release.

Keep up the good work and let us know how you progress.

Erin

Erin
First strike
I have read your notes. I took two quality lessons
from two hall of famers. Maybe you know them. Pattyann and cliff. Well they teach posting and
it has helped me so much i have more confidence in
myself then i have ever had. They show me to line
up at dots and take normal steps and right arm goes toward target and right leg goes behind left
leg at 45 % angle. They say do not back off from
line after ball delivered until it hits pins. Post
the shot. I think it's great. I also think it is
worth a try in practice. Also do not turn the ball
in your delivery right hand points at the ceiling.
Let me know what you think. bowling joel

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">They say do not back off from
line after ball delivered until it hits pins.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">This is why I harp so much about balance at the line. Its impossible to post a shot without balance. Keep up the enthusiasm Joel!

Erin

Posting a shot means having a perfect balance on the point of release and being able to hold your form after the release.

Chunky

So it doesn't necessarily mean getting your trailing-leg foot down onto the approach, just being stable after the release, however you're able to do that?

I find that if I plant the trailing foot down onto the approach, the reaction is that it prevents my body from tilting too far forwards, creating a more balanced finishing position.

Does it also prevent one's shoulders from rotating? That's the only thing I can guess was the cause of two (three?) shots that seemed to come out of nowhere in league tonight.

All the shots happened in the third game, and all were waaaaaay left...at least 5 boards. They missed the head pin entirely. Usually, if I miss left, it's by a board or two; these shots were like bowling onto a parallel universe within the lane!

So, assuming I'm right in ascribing the cause (and maybe I'm not), my question is this: Does tilting less from the waist make one more susceptible to shoulder rotation and/or the wayward effects of it? If so, how then does one keep the shoulders properly aligned with this new form? (It wasn't a problem in game 2, where every ball was in the pocket, so I figure fatigue was a factor in game 3.) And does planting the trailing foot help in doing that?

No, planting the trailing foot on the lane does not neccessarily prevent the shoulders from over rotating.

It's not a matter of more or less body tilt, but the correct amount, basically your body or rather your back should be kept generally straight and tilted at the waist. This tilt angle cannot go lower then the 45 degrees angle or the swing might get too steep and you lose balance not to mention put a strain on the back. When viewed from the side when finishing at the foul line, the toes, knee and head should be above each other in a straight line.

To prevent over rotation of the shoulders, you can try keeping your shoulders parallel to the foul line when starting and throughout your swing. Watch someone like Walter Ray, he does not open his shoulders much and basically keeps his shoulders relatively closed throughout his approach.
Having a free arms swing and being relaxed also helps.

Sometimes I find I over rotate my shoulders to the left when I get aggressive and try to muscle the shot too much, like you it also happens in the later games, perhaps you got a little overly aggressive?

Also there are many very informative articles here: http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm

I hope I have helped.

Thanks, Flamenco. Yes, that was helpful. I do find myself muscling the ball slightly in later games. Don't know whether it's from being too aggressive or as compensation for fatigue. Last night it was probably a little of both.

When I notice it (usually, it's the cause for the 1-2 board miss left), I remind myself to keep the swing free and relaxed, and that fixes it. Maybe it was the magnitude of the miss last night that had me searching for another cause. Maybe I also need to remind myself to notice the tendency before it happens--i.e., as part of my regular pre-shot routine.

I like Ron Clifton's site a lot. (I'm in North Carolina, about 2 hours west of him.)

HI,
First strike another suggestion if you are topping the ball or pulling it to the left in the last game might be beause of fatigue you might be starting the ball a little late this will also cause you to have to pull the ball in the down swing because your timing is just a little late. :rolleyes:

First Strike, If I can make one suggestion it would be to take it a bit slower on all the attempted changes. If you are committed to improvement you must remember that changes must become a subconscious act. Pick one thing to work on and practice that item only for multiple games. Once it becomes a "habit" or "muscle memory" which can be performed subconciously than you can begin to work on another item. If your balance (posting as you call it) is adequate than you are going to make yourself crazy by all these angles and degrees. If your footwork and swing allow you to be balanced at the point of release and you do not miss your target by more than a board or board and a half I would suspect that your not doing too badly. Someone suggested to watch Walter Ray and if you use him as a criteria you will note that he does not always post his shot. However he is balanced at the point of release demonstrating that his timing is correct. Keep your approach comforatable and natural, ask the coach (a ceritified one I hope) to evaluate your approach timing. Look for a coach with a video analysis capability to verify this and then go get em! If there is one constant in this game it is that what works for one person will often make another crazy. Good Luck

in regards to rotating the shoulders around too much, i find if you are too aggresive with your trail leg, and swing it around paralel with your sliding foot, it twists your body around, be sure to have it behind your centre of mass, at a 45 degree angle. Something i am working on, as i end up facing the next lanes 10 pin.

Daz