Well after searching for a style for me, I finally found it... The cranker. The only problem is I am having a hard time getting my hand under the ball after my big swing. At what part should my hand be under the ball in my swing. I am also having a hard time sliding my left food. It usually turns so it is parallel with the foul line. And suggestions.

1 more thing is it normal to be sore in my hand and wrist after finding the style cranker and using it for 8 games straight =).

The obvious question is, why do you think that you should be a cranker? (other than to see the ball hook). Erin (as she usually does) gave you some very good advice in your other post, the key is to get the ball to the pocket at the right entry angle. It is not necessary to throw a big hook to do this. A big hook looks impressive, but it is much harder to be consistent with it.

Since you are beginning to learn how to bowl, focus on getting the ball to the pocket. If this means that you only have a small hook, so be it, the point is to knock downs as many pins as possible, not to see how much the ball can hook.

As I'm sure you will discover, there will be times when cranking the ball will not work at all. Sometimes the lane condition will not allow it.

Before you really decide to be a craker, make sure that you have good and sound basic game and are consistent in getting the ball to the pocket, then, and only then, look at increasing revs and the amount you are hooking the ball. In the long run, this will make you a better bowler.

I agree with bimmerman. You have chosen a difficult road to travel on. I once traveled that road, only to blow the lanes up one week with curve balls that when any where near the 1/3 would demolish all ten pins and the next week I would leave the lanes exhausted, frustrated, under average and still convinced that I was a cranker. A coach taught me that less is more for me. He was right.

But each one us must choose our own path. Some paths are more difficult than others. The Pro's Coach, John Jowdy would echo bimmerman and Erin: He answers the question of how much hook is needed. Jowdy says, enough only to knock down the "king pin" (5-pin).

It really isn't about the hook with the cranker for me. It really is just me feeling like I have the controll of the ball. I like to throw the ball hard... I really like to play every sport agressive, whether it is Basketball or Football. I have tried other styles, and found the cranker the most comfortable for me. That is why.

Now could anyone tell me when should my hand be under the ball at what point in my swing or is just different for everyone

So you want to be a cranker? Well it really is not my place to try to dissuade but note that such bowling can take its toll on your body so you need to stay fit and do your stretches before you bowl. Watch out in particular for your knee, take a while to get up to full speed and make sure that there are no unpleasant surprises on the approach.

I have seen good power players and bad power players so let us look at what the good ones do.

They all have late timing (their feet arrive before the ball) but they always remain in balance, i.e. they don’t “fall off the shot”.

They take as much muscle out of the swing as they can, using all that free gravity; although some have their elbow bent at some point during the swing all the good bowlers get the elbow straight before release and make sure that it never goes outside the midline of the ball. This maximises leverage, if you allow your elbow to flare out you usually end up be getting the ball inside the target and often get an erratic ball reaction.

Ditto if you grab the ball at the bottom of the swing so make sure that the ball fits and that you can get your thumb out easily and quickly without crimping (knuckling) the thumb.

Keep the wrist cocked and cupped, that keeps the fingers under the ball; a more advanced release involves un-cocking and un-cupping the ball at release but this takes split second timing or it can go horribly wrong.

Get the hardest ball possible for your spares; even then you may need to change your release.

The good power players on the Pro Tour let the ball go with minimum effort and the revs and power comes from the late timing and fast release of the ball. The ball is projected down the lane (note not up to the ceiling) often fed out with a dropped shoulder before friction hits making it explode into the pins. Too often alas “Joe Soap” league bowlers “over loft”, “over turn” and “over muscle” the ball in the general direction of the pocket. Given the right conditions, when it all goes well they can knock down pins by the bucket load. When it all goes wrong however they just leave buckets, and splits, and wash-outs etc.

To really progress I suggest that you get a specialist coach (yeah I know we always say that but in the case wannabe power players it is even more important).

Good Bowling

That's a great resonse Magpie. I really don't know what to add, since most crankers don't last in the sport too long. I know the pro crankers do well, but they have round the clock coaches and sports medicine there all the time. Yet you still hear of numerous injuries that keep many of the pros out for a season or a 1/2 season. And rarely do any of them make it far in the senior tour.

For your typical local house cranker, the lifespan and/or achievement in the sport isn't too long. Especially if they do not get any coaching and lessons on perfecting the timing and gravity fed armswing. I've known a lot more crankers who have toned it down for logevity sake then those that have set out to delibertly be crankers.

I also think the body style a person has can be more condusive to being a competative cranker vs stroker. A shorter stouter body shape, seems to go hand in hand with the ability to be a good cranker. While tall, thin lankey people are better suited to a smoother stroker style.

So I would ditto the "get a coach" idea, so that you do not injure yourself and end up not bowling or doing something else you love to do in your life.

Erin

I hear you guys/girls. I am a really fit athlete, I am 5'11 170. I start for my college basketball team that we practice every day. So I am not some out of shape guy. To tell you the truth, I am really bowling for fun with my friends and we are going to get into leagues. I have about a 160 avg with a high game of 236 from bowling for about 4 months. I seriously don't want to get a coach for bowling, is that a bad thing?

One thing you guys are right about is the fact how if 1 thing goes wrong it is ugly. I had 4 stikes to start out the game. My ball was looking perfect and just cruching the pins in the pocket. Then sometimes I would miss the pocket and even gutter it some times. I hope this is just me learning how to crank because it is my 3 day just learning.

R z A,
Great to hear that you are in shape.
(Detroit or San Antonio? )

You might not seriously want to get a coach, but seriously, getting a coach, a least for a few lessons is more than worth it. Proper technique will save your body and improve your game.

If for no other reason, do it for your knees...basketball is hard enough on the knees without adding extra stress.
Unfortunately your body will not be 19 forever.

Alll the best with the 2 "Bs" (Bowling and basketball)

lab

RZA, you are young, so young. Its easy for you to crank the ball. BUT!!! we're trying to tell you that if you want to enjoy the sport of bowling for a long while, you'll have to learn proper technique so that you don't injure youself and get out of the sport before you want. That's where the coach comes in.

But if you don't want to do that, you'll have to realize that your skill level will hit a max and that'll be it. Plus you may injure yourself (like your elbow and knee) which could proclude you from enjoying other sports like basketball.

Erin

labradorice, I hate both teams haha. Rockets lost =(. But i would want detroit to win but spurs are just too good. Hey Erin and labradorice , You guys are 100% right. I went bowling today and was cranking and my wrist is all jacked up right now. I t making cracking noises, my fingers are really sore... I am in bad shape haha should have listen to you 2.

You are right I wouldn't think bowling is hard on my knees but my knees are sore. I was wondering why they were ... bowling must be it. I just don't know what style to bowl. When I was bowling with the house balls i was doing better then when i got my ultra sonic. I am just really confused on what to do. Nothing seems to work for me. I can only get like a 3-5 board hook on my ball. Maybe I do need a coach.

Just want to say thanks for being able to see past my arrogance =)


Also I am a little frustrated because bowling is not coming easy to me like all the other sports have been.

Not as easy as you thought it was, heh? Let me say this about bowling: It is an easy game to learn, but extremely difficult to Master. Now if you're thrown a competitive condition where you have to have both power and accuracy, its not how much hook you throw but rather how much you CONSISTANTLY throw the ball in regards to amount of hook, ball speed and hitting your target line.

Then you use adjustments to bring the ball into the pocket. Bowling at the highest level is 90% mental 10% physical. When you bowl for score, you don't think about how to throw the ball, you think about getting the wood out... You play what you have at that time, similar to a baseball pitcher. He may not have his best stuff that day, but he can still shut down a team by using what he does have and using great location.

As an aside,

I'm a 53 year old power stroker. Meaning I don't Crank the heck out of the ball, but I don't throw it slow and straight either. I LOVE to beat up on kids who think they are better me because they hook the ball more. Oh, I have my days where everything hurts and I use less power, and more angle, but on the days where I feel good, I can make that ball break sharply and arc very strongly the last 15 feet, with Good speed. Makes the pins scatter when the ball ihits the pins.

Now if you really want to crank the ball, you need to get that head snapping too. That way you can also do some damage to your neck.

Just kidding, don't do it.

Erin

R z A,
Power stroker might be the solution for your style search. Many youthful males make the switch from crankers to power strokers after coaching, increasing the control and maintaining the power.

QUOTED: 802dave
Topic: Styles, Scoring, Carrying, & Repeatability
"It feels powerful to be able to throw a big hook and watch the pins dance around, but accuracy, repeatability, and smart lane play is what scores consistently."

Maybe Atochabsh(Erin) might know of a coach in your area....Have we said it enough??? Get a coach!

lab

yea a coach is definetly going to be helpful, or ask a Pro Shop guy for some help.

My Pro Shop guy has been very nice to me... and has helped me a bunch since I got my ball. Now I'm getting much mroe consistent clean, smooth strokes. Still gotta get a bit more consistent, but he helped me a lot... and someone with experience watching you will be good.

So get a coach or someone to give you some tips.
It'll help a lot...

Thanks for the advice guys. Anyone know a coach in Orange County California at all.

Sorry RzA, I'm in Sacramento, that's a long way from Orange County.

Erin

Erin have any clips of a power stroker... the release and what the ball looks like going down the lane

R z A,

See if you can find any Pete Weber on video, he is often used as an example of "power stroking".

lab

Is PB3 also a power stroker? He seems to fit the discription. What about Chris Barnes?
Pete weber is a very good example of a power stroker, so many revs and accuracy with so little effort and such a clean release. Don't know if it's just me though, but he seems to lift his ball in the backswing.

I think more then the style to emmulate, is the theory of extreme accuracy. You really need to have accuracy and then the ability to repeat shots. No matter what style you have, to excell you need accuracy.

Erin

RzA

Not too sure if it will help, but you find various videos links to PBA matches at Ball Reviews. I’m sure Pete Weber features a few times.

Have a look at - http://www.[Banned-URL].com/Forum/Topics.asp?ForumID=86&CategoryID=5

Not having much access to Bowling on TV I find the links there very useful. If only the PBA and other Tournaments produced DVDs...

I would suggest that you follow Erin's route, find your style, stay relaxed and work on accuracy.

Good luck RzA

Alf

RzA i would like to say one thing Cranker to Cranker
lol if you want to crank you ave got to make sure that you can keep the shot the same and hit your target otherwise you are going to get an eratic ball
reaction.
also it will help to do what MAGPIE said as he is coaching me in order to stop my eratic ball reaction
cuz im always pulling the ball and "chicken wing" my elbow lol.....

Hope that this may help you and PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE and you will be a good cranker lol

thanks AJ

Yes, but his foward swing is very smooth and unmuscled. Pete uses a semi-muscled swing meaning he muscles it going back into the backswing, but his armswing is free coming foward.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Bowling-00172

how does it look

The most obvious thing that I'm picking up is the lack of knee bend.
Other than that I'm gonna refrain from commenting for now, I wouldn't wanna provide errant information...
You can try looking at some videos of Robert Smith or Tommy Jones as a reference.

Nice video examples: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/kVideo.htm
http://www.dunstablebowling.co.uk/video.htm

here's a nice cranker video: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VCranker.Htm

The problem with the cranker style is control and being accurate with the boards. Depending on what kind of ball you are using, you will have problem on various type of conditions. Ask me, learn the textbook style too so you can adjust from cranker to tweener to stroke. If you can gain a bit of each, you can play it easier and not get easily fustrated when you're having difficulty.