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#200113 - 01/28/20 02:53 PM What to do?
RGR Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 149
A/S/L: 62/m/Ontario
I have been on here ages ago and now coming back, want to ask for advise, I'm not a bowling techy or ball techy so answers simple would be advised, okay here goes, bear with me. I'm 65 physically okay knees have a little arthritis but still bendable, throw 14 lb balls, my ball speed is good but have low revs, on our typical house shot I'm averaging around 200, the outside works for me there, straight down the 1st arrow and the ball comes in nicely. Right now I'm using a storm Sure Loc and even my blast from the past ball the Hyper Cell they both seem to do well, and are drilled according to my Pro Shop, to snap at the end. I even have a new ball the Motiv Trident Abyss that I haven't had the need to really use yet. Here is my real question, we have a local bowling tournament here at our lanes that I tried to qualify for, they dressed the lanes differently. The first arrow shot didn't work to good, basically not at all, maybe moved about 5 boards and that is pushing it, wouldn't even hit the head pin, and if it did hit the head pin I was looking at buckets, was shooting at a lot of buckets that day. If I moved more inside, well it was like throwing foam balls at a wall, the ball was glancing off the head pin and leaving me with 5-7s 5-10s and some other junk. So what should I do? Change the grit on my bowling ball, and which one or should I throw from the outside and try to throw right at the pocket? Slowing the ball down does affect my accuracy, any advice will be appreciated.

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#200114 - 01/28/20 05:17 PM Re: What to do? [Re: RGR]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 479
A/S/L: 73/m/IL
Looked at the specs of the Sure Lock and the Trident Abyss. RG, Diff and Inter Diff are almost the same and both are 2000 grit finish on their covers. Looks like the difference are the colors and that's it out of their boxes.
The Hyper Cell is a little difference and it appears that it should start hooking at your feet or at least not too far down the lane.
If you were leaving 5+anything on lots of your shots, that tells me that if you thought you threw a good shot that your ball was not driving into the pocket. Very likely it had already rolled out and lost its energy to carry through the pins well.
You said that you moved 5 boards. What does that mean? Did you move both your feet and your target five boards to the left? Perhaps a move of 10 boards with your feet to the left and 5 or so boards to the left with your target might have worked a little better for you.
You're using pretty wicked equipment. Low RG and high Differential balls, Wow!
I just bought a Roto Grip UFO and it would be close to what you're using. On my first shot I stood with my left foot on board 28 and targeted board 12. Wow! What a ball. Nice move towards the pocket on my first two shots. It was a new drill and had to put it away because I need to get some adjustments on the bevel of the thumb hole and widen the hole a little as well. Looking forward to using it this week for more than two shots...

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#200116 - 01/28/20 07:17 PM Re: What to do? [Re: RGR]
82Boat69 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 736
A/S/L: 71/M/California
Work backwards.

To carry the highest percentage of hits, you need a 15 pound ball, rolling at 16 mph, on the 17.5 board at a 4.5 degree angle to the 5 pin. 275-350 RPMS would be nice but not necessary.

Most people start on some board on the approach. Then from that position they find a target out on the lane where they think they can get the ball to recover from and carry. On a typical house shot that may work. On a sport pattern or something else flat like many tournament shots, the lanes will tell you where to play.

The first adjustment should be to your expectations. If you wander right or left, you may not be able to shoot a pattern that doesn't allow you to wander. Correct this weakness before your next Tourney.

Start where you know the ball must be to carry. Now visualize your ball's hook profile in reverse to get an idea of where you might stand. From there, adjust your starting position and speed until you get the desired result. If you can watch an earlier squad, find people similar to yourself. Watch what they do. Forget what you do at home. Go where the lanes tell you to go.

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#200118 - 01/30/20 04:10 PM Re: What to do? [Re: djp1080]
RGR Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 149
A/S/L: 62/m/Ontario
So what do you do if the 3 phases of the bowling ball is not completed, on my normal house shot my ball goes through the 3 phases, skid, hook and roll. As a 6' tall bowler with long arms my pendalum swing gets the ball out there pretty good, wouldn't say excessive but would say about 18 maybe 19 but then could be wrong, worked a lot on the off season to just use the arm swing, arm swing is maybe about mid back. This tournament shot I tried out for my ball bypassed the roll part all together, still sliding as it hit the pins, so as a low rev bowler it doesn't work that great, high revers are liking it so what to do what to do. so asking would a lower grit finish work?

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#200119 - 01/30/20 06:04 PM Re: What to do? [Re: RGR]
82Boat69 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 736
A/S/L: 71/M/California
As a person who grew up in the 60's cranking industrial diamonds, I've had to work extra hard on learning 'not' to hit up on the ball at the bottom and to simply allow the ball to come off my hand right next to my left foot.

I've also re-drilled some of my balls to read whatever friction there is as soon as possible. I would also consider buying a urethane ball. I use the Hammer Black Widow Urethane. Urethane allows me to invert the hockey-stick shape of my hook profile. Instead of a long skid phase, I have a short skid and a long roll.

As I've aged I've become an area-bowler. Instead of trying to pick out a distinct target, I look down the lane for my intended break-point and then visualize back toward the arrows to get an idea of where I need to be. This is where the pros show how great they are. Watching them start in front of a ball return with just 3 steps to keep their shots inside is what makes them so much better than us.

Rev-rate is not based just on RPM's off the hand. It's based more on speed and roll as the ball reads friction. Learning to let the ball do most of the work is the secret. I'm lucky, I almost throw a full roller. I get a lot of ball on the lane with moderate ball surfaces. Others need to buy balls that may be very aggressive to get the same result. A ball thrown at 16 mph with 275 rpm's, once it gets into a roll will almost double it's rev-rate by the time it hits the pocket. Watch some of the best women to see this phenomenon.

What this also says, a person needs to work on technique to play all the lines that tournaments may throw at us. I use to fear oil. Now I look at oily shots as an advantage for me. My weakness are really dry lanes. I can get the ball down the lane okay, but too often by the time I hit the pocket, my ball is DOA and I leave the weak 10 or on middle hits the 7-10. I just moved back up to 15 pounds in an effort to fix this.

Finally, reading the lane transitions early and letting the lanes tell you what to do is the secret. Watch each of your shots to see where the ball leaves the alley in the pit. Deflection is the enemy. A ball needs to go off on the left side of the 9 pin. Just a 1/2 inch too much deflection can result in a ringing 10 or a flat 10. This is especially true when we're unable to create lots of angle.

youtube is full of videos to show a person how to work on everything they might ever need. Too many of us look in the Pro Shop for help rather than our own games.

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#200120 - 01/31/20 08:55 AM Re: What to do? [Re: RGR]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Good stuff, Boat. I hope RGR understands what you are saying.

I never understood why some tournaments and a lot of houses keep the oil pattern a secret. The sooner a bowler knows this, the easier it is to understand what his ball will do. Many tournaments allow only 1 shot per lane. That is not sufficient for me to see the oil impact. So, I suffer through the first half of game 1.

I too, dislike short patterns. But, when I'm told I am on a Cheetah, I can get the proper equipment and have a basic idea of what to expect and a line to use. Becoming familiar with the condition, knowing this in advance, greatly helps to overcome the early trial period.

I once bowled in a regional, on a long, oily pattern and sat second after 2 sets. On the final set, we again moved lanes, but our lane broke down. And, we were moved to a pair that was not dressed and well worn. I failed miserably and dropped out of the top standings. I had the wrong equipment and took most of the game to recognize the worn ball path and carry down.

I think this is the hardest thing for bowlers to learn. Where is the oil? Where can I get friction? What is the back end reaction? Then, determining what line to roll, and with what ball. It takes me a better part of a game. Lesser experienced bowlers will suffer.

I concur on your advice to look at Youtube. I follow Slowinski's suggestions. Duke has a few that I like as well. Even the front page on here has suggestions that are useful.
_________________________
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#200121 - 01/31/20 09:03 AM Re: What to do? [Re: RGR]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I think it would be interesting to see an overhead view of a ball path on 2 different patterns, long and short. This could be useful to explain how the same ball, using the same stance and target, will get vastly different reactions.

Then modify stance and target as a tutorial. Overlay the pattern on the lane and track the ball as it is thrown.

There are 2 lanes at our center (lanes 39/40) that have a tracking system similar. Tracks the ball path by the board it rolls over at various points down the lane. But, you get statistics and a list of boards as the ball rolls. A visual assist would be better.


Edited by Dennis Michael (01/31/20 09:08 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#200122 - 01/31/20 09:48 AM Re: What to do? [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 736
A/S/L: 71/M/California
If you draw an arc on a lane that starts at the left end of the foul line goes out to the right gutter and then curves back into the 7 pin corner, that line will only be about 6 inches longer than the lane.

It's this optical illusion we see from the foul line that has us all fooled.

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#200123 - 02/01/20 07:45 AM Re: What to do? [Re: Dennis Michael]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 897
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
I think this is the hardest thing for bowlers to learn. Where is the oil? Where can I get friction? What is the back end reaction? Then, determining what line to roll, and with what ball. It takes me a better part of a game. Lesser experienced bowlers will suffer.

You don't even need to be a tournament to see who knows how to do this and who doesn't. I knew coming into league last night that our pair was going to break down fast because of who we were bowling. Early in the third game, my Hy-Road Nano went high on what I thought was a good shot. I could have moved deeper than I already was with the Nano, but I would have been standing against the ball return on the right lane and it wasn't how much it was hooking that worried me, it was when. So I balled down and went back to the line where I started the night with the Nano and shot nearly the same score as my first game. Others on the pair didn't ball down, moved deeper with their same aggressive equipment that wouldn't finish, or just didn't change much at all. Their 3rd game scores suffered.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(13)
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