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#123487 - 03/24/10 09:48 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style ***** [Re: abe]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: abe
It's recommended that CG be placed in the middle of the fingerspan, as per the diagram Aoiten found. With a plastic ball, the pin is CG, hence why it says "CG or WEIGHT BLOCK(pin)"... hope that clears it up for ya. wink


My current ball (a straight shooter) has the pin on the exact opposite side that my grip is on. If the pin were directly under my grip, the pancake weight would be at the top when the ball is spinning, yeah? That's an important difference.

How well do house balls work for spinning?

My shoulder is a little sensitive, more than likely from trying to swim butterfly. I tried spinning a 12-pound house ball and felt some discomfort in my shoulder, so I guess I'd go with an 11-pound ball then. (Even when shooting straight, I prefer only 13#, but I standardised on 14# equipment just in case I decide to learn to hook.)

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#123489 - 03/24/10 10:00 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: 10PinGaloot]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: SpareMe
Unfortunately, It takes a really good aim, and hurts my shoulder, so I don't bowl complete games with it.

I used to use a 12 pound ball for this. I probably should have kept it. Hmmm....


How much does your regular ball weigh? Do you have any pre-existing shoulder issues? Could it have been a technique problem?

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#123508 - 03/25/10 12:05 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: aoiten]
abe Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 5
A/S/L: 27/M/Columbus, Ohio, USA
My current ball (a straight shooter) has the pin on the exact opposite side that my grip is on. If the pin were directly under my grip, the pancake weight would be at the top when the ball is spinning, yeah? That's an important difference.

How well do house balls work for spinning?
[/quote]

Normally, yes, the weight block would be on top of the ball while spinning. But what's important is that the center of gravity is near the axis. With the different core designs of most reactive balls it's important to have the CG on top. But with plastic balls having a pancake weight, it really doesn't make a huge difference. My T-Zone(6 pack video) is drilled with the pin on the bottom of the ball, and it's a great spinner ball... only 11 lbs too!
House balls work quite well. But the bottom line is they won't be as comfortable as a ball drilled specifically for your hand. You also probably won't be quite as accurate with a house ball because you really have to grip them to hang on to them.

And if anyone trying this style is having unexplained shoulder pain... Remember to RELAX your approach and swing. We're not crankers! The helicopter is a finess techinque. Spinners actually have a lot in common with strokers.
_________________________
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#123534 - 03/25/10 07:35 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: abe]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Thanks, everyone. This thread has increased my interest and knowledge of spinning. It would be nice to end up with an increased score, though shooting spares is actually the fun part for me. hehe

Do spinners tend to use the same ball and technique for spares?

Hmm... If it doesn't matter which side the pin is on for spinning a plastic ball, I wonder if it matters much for shooting straight.

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#123547 - 03/25/10 10:42 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: aoiten]
KahKiat Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 212
A/S/L: Male, Singapore
Originally Posted By: aoiten
Thanks, everyone. This thread has increased my interest and knowledge of spinning. It would be nice to end up with an increased score, though shooting spares is actually the fun part for me. hehe

Do spinners tend to use the same ball and technique for spares?

Hmm... If it doesn't matter which side the pin is on for spinning a plastic ball, I wonder if it matters much for shooting straight.


I would say it is just your confident & skill level in bowling. Yes, the technique stays the same. But if you think you could score better with traditional style for sparing then go ahead. But the only thing is, if you keep switching style in a bowling game. It could mess up your game.

This is what Michael Fagan (cranker) wrote on his site:

I use a reactive ball sometimes because when traveling I am limited to the number of balls I can bring. I do not want to waste space with a plastic ball so I have learned to use my reactive ball and throw it straight. The best way to make easy spares is with a plastic ball.


If you can bowl well. You can make your ball straight, spin or hook at your own desire. Our 2 handed Jason Belmonte is a good example. He spares with 2 hands too.


Edited by KahKiat (03/25/10 10:55 AM)
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#123554 - 03/25/10 11:24 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Kait is right. Learning how to make spares with a reactive ball can save space and is a great tool to use on dry lanes. As for how that applies to the spinner style I have no idea. I've never tried nor will I. looks like too much long term damage to the arm in my opinion. I'd think you'd have to use a plastic ball for the spinner style because I've never seen a spinner bowler throw a ball straight, it's always hooked. A plastic ball would significantly deter that rotation and hook.

I'd like to make one correction Kiat, Fagan is a Power Stroker like his mentor PDW, not a cranker. His big wheeling hook and tons of revs come from is free swing and strong release.


Edited by TheDemolitionMan (03/25/10 11:28 AM)
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#123560 - 03/25/10 12:30 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Oh, here is the question I forgot to ask: If 11-12 pounds if a good weight range for teens and adults, what might a good starting point be for children who currently use 6-10 pound balls? For example, for my son to spin a 9-10 pound ball, it would be equivalent to me spinning a 14 pound ball. I think my arm would break off.

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#123563 - 03/25/10 01:16 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: aoiten]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
The point that was made about having to be precise is right on. Without a hook, there's no forgiveness. The advantage is that the ball works exactly the same regardless of lane condition.

I would not recommend anyone getting into this style after their joints start stiffening up, e.g. after middle age. But for a youngster, go for it! I'd recommend 8 pounds to start with for the young'un.

Pick up spares throwing the same ball that you spin for the strikes, but instead, throw it straight. You could also have a gentle reactive so you can hook into double wood and those weird splits.

I've used a spare ball (12 and 14 lbs) and reactives (16 lbs) on this shot, and while the heavier balls seem to get more pin action, they also hurt. For an adult, I'd say 12 pounds is optimum. Which I hadn't given away my 12
pounder....

Regarding form, no one asked, but the answer is that it whould be identically the same as for a stroker shot. The only diff between sponner and stoker hook is in the hand, not in the arm, and form applies to arm. Therefore, a good coach can give you lots of help.

As far as where to throw it, again no one asked, but I'm a font of info.... I throw from the right and left at the pocket and brooklyn pocket. All 4 shots work. I llike the sound of the pins when I hit the brooklyn side.

Been doing this shot since 1980. In 1980, I used to end the release with the thumb pointing at the pins. Now I end the release with the thumb and fingers at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. It's less prone to pulling the ball and gets the same revs IMO.


_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#123566 - 03/25/10 01:32 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: aoiten]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: aoiten
What might a good starting point be for children who currently use 6-10 pound balls?


If you think your son might be a serious bowler he might better off with conventional just because coaching of this style is so limited in the US.

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#123568 - 03/25/10 01:43 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: B-Hammer]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: B-Hammer

If you think your son might be a serious bowler he might better off with conventional just because coaching of this style is so limited in the US.


Then again, that could put him in demand as a spinner coach!

I'm just curious about it though. My son isn't into spinning so much. His coach even said that it wasn't "real" bowling, even though it works! I instructed his friend to give it a go because he wasn't hitting anything at all and he improved instantly. But for my son, it's all about the glory of the hook. ^_^

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