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#199517 - 06/23/18 12:04 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: 82Boat69]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1166
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69

This site has really been quiet for a long time. Maybe we can liven it up a little. Tell me where you bowl so I can see their webpage.
Brunswick Zone Lilburn

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
When I talk with other bowlers my age about this stuff, you can watch their eyes roll into the back of their heads :-) Most want the pin over their ring finger and that's about it
Just happens my Sweet spot ends up as pin up over ring or there about on most balls. But that is me. I agree with you most bowlers just take what the POS gives them. I had some pretty good advice on how mine should be laid out.
_________________________
Current Bag 16lbs
Storm: Hy-Road,Hy-Road Nano,Intense,Son!Q
L/M Legends: New Standard, Yeah Baby

"Let me bowl or let me die"

HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#199518 - 06/23/18 12:16 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: RGR]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 858
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
I do have balls with the pin above the ring, but I also have at least one ball with the pin drilled out (IN the ring finger hol), and several with other pin placements...depends on what the ball is capable of and what you want the shot shape to look like. EVERYONE'S mileage varies. LoL
_________________________
In decreasing order of reaction:
Monster Kraken - box 2k dull
Storm Code Red (box finish)
Monster Loch Ness - 4k+polish
Brunswick Gold Rhino Pro (shiny)
Storm IQ Tour30 - 4k dull
Storm Polar Ice - 4k+polish

avatar is out of date
equipment list too

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#199520 - 06/23/18 01:58 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: BOSStull]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 646
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I've never been to Georgia. I suspect it's humid there. Humidity plays havoc with the lanes and the approaches if they haven't got a system to reduce it.

I lived in Wisconsin for 3 years and in the winter time, they have zero humidity. All the homes have a humidifier installed. Most bowling alleys don't. Lane conditions go from dry to drier :-)

I think what most people miss by not experimenting with different drilling options, is the control they can gain over each phase of a ball's reaction. It's not just important that a ball skid, hook and roll, but the distance each phase lasts is really important.

I think too many get enamored with the total motion the ball makes and not where the ball exits the lane when they hit the pocket. Most of my peers are over 55 and think they still have rev-rates over 300. They're wrong of course. Most don't even get 275. On our 40' corner shot, the ball goes long then makes a big move to the pocket. A classic skid flip. Everyone buys really aggressive cover-stocks. Then, they hang weak 10 after weak 10 because their balls use up all their juice making that big move. By the time the ball hits the pocket, it's burned out.

Others no longer have the speed to cause the skid they need with the cover-stock they've chosen. As a result, their balls begin to roll too soon and fade away the longer they roll.

I'd like to meet a ball rep sometime and learn how they choose drilling patterns for the pros.

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#199522 - 06/23/18 04:34 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: RGR]
steveA Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 575
A/S/L: 58/male uk
BOSStull ` I rather live to see it die than the other way around. `

Yeah that's something like I meant.

All my balls are drilled , pin above the fingers but not same distance or side.

Oil pattern is never consistent enough to say thats the ball (s) I'll need for to night. Double league I'll take 3 reactive balls Dry, Med , Heavy. Stick another 2 In the car that fit inbetween for the second league. Never been able to play the same line in the second league . First league is only half the size of the second so do get some fresh oil every few weeks in both. Been 15 boards left with less reactive balls on the fresh in the second league. Probably wrongly blaming the wood lanes soaking up the oil, all dressed when the first league starts.
_________________________
PB
High game 257
series 704



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#199523 - 06/23/18 06:20 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: steveA]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 646
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Pin location is very important, but only if you know your PAP. The distance between the pin and your PAP controls how fast your ball will expend any impetus you've put into it during your release.

Generally speaking a pin-to-PAP of 3-3/8 will expend energy quickest. This distance is where a ball will experience the most flare. The longer the distance, up to 6 inches plus, flare will be reduced, but RPM's will be conserved.

If a person is having trouble with their ball rolling-out, they may benefit from a longer pin-to-PAP and it probably won't end up over their ring finger or over and between their finger holes.

The opposite is also true. People having trouble getting their ball to set up and roll, will benefit from a shorter pin-to-PAP and it will probably fall next to their ring finger.

Like ball motion, many good bowlers become obsessed with RPM's but lose sight of where those RPM's get expended. A ball that never gets into a roll, will hit like a powder puff, regardless of apparent RPM's going down the lane.

As I learned a couple of years ago on this site and after emails to the USBC technical staff, a person who imparts 250 RPM's on their ball from start to finish, will experience 500 RPM's just during the roll phase. Any drilling that reduces these roll-phase RPM's is inappropriate and the bowler is leaving a lot of score on the lanes. People like Belmo and Tackett are experiencing 1200 RPM's during the roll phase which explains why they out-qualify everyone on a regular bases. They carry a much higher percent of hits.

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#199550 - 06/30/18 11:14 AM Re: I'll try again [Re: RGR]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1166
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Boat, yep rain and humidity wrecks havoc on our lanes. Wednesday we bowled in the middle of a thunderstorm on 1 & 2 . Lanes transition quickly and not at the same rate. Not a good night.

About the pin to pap and layout. Basing on what info I read out there on the web I am pretty much at recommended layouts. This was based on throwing the ball a certain way which resulted my tilt at the time of 12, ball speed at release 18, revs average 300. Most of my balls are in the neighborhood of 65/4/30. I had some coaching sessions a while back that changed a few things. Span and fit was changed. I went from throwing the ball more up the back low tilt to one that increased tilt . At the same time my pap decreased from about 5 3/4 to 4 5/8. Almost all the balls I have now are based on those changes.
Now I may actually have a little more tilt based on where my ball is presently tracking. So from what I read I am thinking if nothing else changes but I am increasing tilt then pin to pap should be more than 4 also on my next layout. Boat am I correct in my reasoning. Look foward to your response.
_________________________
Current Bag 16lbs
Storm: Hy-Road,Hy-Road Nano,Intense,Son!Q
L/M Legends: New Standard, Yeah Baby

"Let me bowl or let me die"

HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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#199553 - 06/30/18 12:22 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: BOSStull]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 646
A/S/L: 70/M/California
We have a place in town with synthetic approaches. In summer when it's dry, they're so slick a person's first step becomes a no step :-) In winter, when humidity rises, sliding is really hard on the old knees. Lot's of sliding socks :-)

I use dual angles that allow me to simply change balls as the lane breaks down. This is because of my age. All the practice in the world can't recover the coordination I've lost.

For me, it's all about controlling the length of each phase. I only throw 14 pounds, so too much/little speed, too many/few rev's, all end up as corner pins.

I'm surprised that your PAP has changed. It's usually a function of your biomechanics, not the bowling ball. I'd say one of the values was wrong. I've never had mine done on a high flaring ball, so I could be wrong.

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#199554 - 06/30/18 12:59 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: RGR]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1166
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
I guess I am lucky enough at 61 to be able to bowl with 16 lb. I know sooner or later that is going to change. But I do have some 15 lb balls that I can drop to when the time comes.


The PAP changed from the change in my release not the ball. Sorry if I was not clear enough. I was instructed on how to increase tilt. Tilt was at 5-7 more up the back of the ball before. Release was changed to increase tilt.This was about 2 years ago. All the balls I am presently using are based on the present release. The PAP change was due to the change in my release. My present release increased my tilt to 12. My PAP for this release is 4 5/8.
_________________________
Current Bag 16lbs
Storm: Hy-Road,Hy-Road Nano,Intense,Son!Q
L/M Legends: New Standard, Yeah Baby

"Let me bowl or let me die"

HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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#199563 - 07/03/18 10:01 AM Re: I'll try again [Re: RGR]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9733
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Interesting talk. I don't let the ball dictate how I drill it. If the ball's dynamics are radically different then my delivery or speed allows, I don't get it.

I'm very comfortable with a symmetrical core, RG of 2.58 an Diff of .032. Then, the only difference is the cover stock, that I can manage.

I see so many people with vastly different balls. Different cores, Differentials, yet, they release all the same way. I've seen snapping asymmetricals roll out because of a release. And, low arcing balls hook like mad for the same reason.

Lessen your variables and you may have better results.

I carry 4 balls and each rolls differently. But, only because of the covers. I actually have the same core in 3 of 4. But, one is solid, another pearl and the 3rd is a hybrid cover.


Edited by Dennis Michael (07/03/18 10:03 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#199566 - 07/03/18 03:04 PM Re: I'll try again [Re: Dennis Michael]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 432
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
Dennis, Your choices sound very good and you're in control.
What I see in leagues is transition which I tend to change balls for to keep in the game, but first start moving left.
I've found a drilling that seems give me the type of reaction I'd like to see and have been sticking with it on most new balls.
Like you I don't have many asymmetrical balls, but the Storm Code X is working beautifully. I had the Code Black and it didn't operate like I thought it might as the IQ Tour 30 or Hy-Road Pearl would perform better. I guess the solid coverstock of the Code X made a lot of difference.
During league play it sure makes a difference as to the way the other team plays the lanes. I look at the schedule the night before and then make a decision which balls to take with me. I'm beginning to think that the Code X will be in the bag no matter what. I'd like to decide which second ball will be in the bag no matter what now. smile Currently I've been taking the Hy-Road Pearl rather than the OG Hy-Road. Getting the OG Hy-Road plugged and redrilled to match the Pearl version. Maybe those will be my three go-to balls plus the Mix urethane spare ball. We'll see...

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