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#199184 - 03/10/18 05:21 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 636
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I wish I had more money to blow. I think it would be possible to create an app that would provide optimum dual angles for any given PAP. The only missing parameters would be a person's speed and RPMs.

I think shorter pin-to-PAP values work best for those with fewer RPM's. For myself, because my PAP is 6-3/16 over and down 3/8, I'm fairly limited. The opposite is also true. I have some friends who almost throw spinners and how they can drill their balls is also limited.

It's too bad ball manufacturers who are sponsoring PBA and PWBA members aren't publishing what they're discovering. I'm sure they want to protect any information they've discovered, but eventually it will all show up on the internet.

A few months ago, there were a few posts about a device that could be inserted into a bowling ball that would record a ball's information and then it could be downloaded into a PC. I've never seen anymore on such a device. I don't even know if it was true. But, it does seem possible. If such a device was used, I think ball makers would lose about 60% of their 'new' ball market as bowlers learn how much is based on their PAP, RPM's and ball speed and how little is based on technical specs, hype and the name of the new balls.

I wonder if a really neat name for a bowling ball could be sold? Who wouldn't want to own a &#20129;&#22238;&#21477;&#12520;&#12288;&#23610;&#12520;&#21477; instead of a Code Red? LOL!

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#199185 - 03/11/18 09:50 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1153
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69


A few months ago, there were a few posts about a device that could be inserted into a bowling ball that would record a ball's information and then it could be downloaded into a PC.
Bowler ID? or something new?
http://www.ebibowling.com/about2
_________________________
Current Average 208

Current Bag 16lbs
Storm: Hy-Road,Hy-Road Nano,Intense,Son!Q
L/M Legends: New Standard, Yeah Baby

HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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#199186 - 03/11/18 09:55 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: BOSStull]
Richie V. Offline
Virtual League Secretary,
Virtual League Champion x4


Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 4645
A/S/L: 51/M/Brockton, MA
Originally Posted By: BOSStull
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69


A few months ago, there were a few posts about a device that could be inserted into a bowling ball that would record a ball's information and then it could be downloaded into a PC.
Bowler ID? or something new?
http://www.ebibowling.com/about2


Yeah, I think Bowler ID is it.


Edited by Richie V. (03/11/18 09:56 AM)
_________________________
Arsenal (all 15 lb.)
Alpha Crux
Marvel Pearl
IQ Tour Fusion
Reign of Fire
Tropical Breeze
Fast
T-Zone

Career Highs
Avg.: 197 (Summer 2008)
Book: 186
Series: 707
Game: 288

Current
Brunswick Mixed - Avg: 179 HS: 646 HG: 269
Sunday Niters - Avg: 179 HS: 676 HG: 259
Composite Avg: 179

The Tenth Board: My bowling blog
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#199191 - 03/11/18 11:42 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
SteveH Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 766
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
I never see Bowler ID sold anywhere, did they give up, or only at some demo days and pro shops?

Some great info in this thread. I forget when it happened to me, but I stopped responding to hype when I realized they were marketing to an entirely different bowler than myself. Speed and RPM account for an awful lot of success at the league level. Who hasn't seen a younger guy throw a new rock at league exploding the rack? Stand left, heave right.

Before injuries, I spent a fair amount of time working on position, hand movement, and speed. What was hampering me is strong covers. My lower - average speed on house shots didn't translate into pocket hits or carry. I simply couldn't get the ball down long enough, and throwing harder didn't increase my score, only my injuries:) Trying to play the inside wasn't any prettier.

Once I switched to the Hy Road Pearl, and my newer Roto Grip Ink, bowling changed for me. I typically only look at symmetrical balls now, and these two balls have taught me more about hand position and axis rotation than I ever would have learned otherwise. I simply don't have the power or revs to make use of a strong asym on a house shot. On sport shots, the strongest ball in the world looks like a weaker asym for me.

Consistency is also far easier when your ball gives your predictability. The more arcing symmetrical balls allow your eyes and brain to actually see the ball's motion, whereas less-skilled bowlers using strong covers and monstrous cores tend to target areas, not specific points.
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
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#199194 - 03/11/18 06:12 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2127
A/S/L: 30/M/AZ
Steve your epiphany is one that almost every league bowler in America needs to learn. In fact, I might start a face book group to spread the word. The more people that go out and buy shiny symmetric balls, the more people will be having fun in league. And if we can get them to learn to use tape so their ball fits properly on any given night, the enjoyment will skyrocket further.

Its your duty to spread the word. Most people are going to look at you like you're nuts. They'll be using their brand new Hy-Road Nano, puking its guts out going down the lane, flat 10 after flat 10 and they'll want to buy some new super soaker because its "stronger." You'll tell them they actually need a Tropical Breeze and they'll think you're insane. But the one person who take your advice will be converted to the movement, and will be forever in your debt. Maybe they'll dedicate their first 300 to you.

I can see it now. Happy bowlers, having fun, and no roll out.
_________________________
Career Highs: 300/759

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#199198 - 03/11/18 09:06 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: champ]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 636
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I've been waiting for these changes and also wondering when? How skewed do averages need to become before anything gets done?

If bowling was a booming business, nobody would care. Unfortunately, bowling isn't doing well and 'stakeholders' have more clout than the average league member. Higher average bowlers are at the far-end of the average-bell-curve so will get listened to last.

The new rules will have some interesting side effects. First, will the new rules apply to all balls already out in the marketplace or only for new balls sold? I suspect the latter. No governing body has ever forced everyone to change what they were doing. However, for those who could fill their balance hole and stay legal, I think they will.

A ball that doesn't soak up oil will be the death-call for urethane. Again :-) Carry-down will become a problem. Again :-) The biggie in my mind will be the additional RPM's that many bowlers will realize, not to mention their speed as friction is reduced. Getting the ball to roll before it hits the pocket may introduce shorter oil patterns. Again :-)

If nothing else, it'll be interesting. I can hear the howls coming from all the people averaging over 200 today who won't be able to average that high any longer without actually practicing.

Now where did I put that Columbia 300 'Aftershock'?

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#199216 - 03/16/18 08:38 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 851
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69

A ball that doesn't soak up oil will be the death-call for urethane.


Huh....I thought a ball that didn't soak up oil WAS urethane! LoL

Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
Again :-) Carry-down will become a problem. Again :-) The biggie in my mind will be the additional RPM's that many bowlers will realize, not to mention their speed as friction is reduced. Getting the ball to roll before it hits the pocket may introduce shorter oil patterns. Again :-)


The only option I have for carry down involves particles embedded in the cover. It works, but I only have one piece left that even remotely qualifies, and that wasn't sold as a particle cover-stock, and I rarely even carry it in the door. Anyone think that if they ban oil absorbing balls the next step will be to ban particle cover-stocks?


Edited by 6_ball_man (03/16/18 08:39 AM)
_________________________
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equipment list too

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#199218 - 03/16/18 10:38 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 6_ball_man]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 636
A/S/L: 70/M/California
There were a lot of balls made during the transition from urethane to reactive resin that meet the requirements of the new rules. In one of my posts, I mentioned the Columbia 300 Aftershock. The Brunswick Rhino was another.

Lane oil is expensive. I see oil patterns getting shorter as balls become denser. One of the highest scoring patterns prior to reactive resin was 10 units gutter to gutter for 20 feet. A person needed to line up way left and angle their shot to the end of the pattern. The ball would accumulate oil going across the pattern then dissipate it over the next 10 feet or so, then it would come charging back with a really steep entry angle with lots of roll at the end.

Prior to the ABC's 'short oil' rule, only 600-800 perfectos were shot each year. With short-oil, that number jumped into the thousands. By the middle 80's over 25K 300 games were being shot.

Whatever USBC does, manufacturers, PSO's and bowlers will find what works to keep on keeping on :-)

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#199225 - 03/16/18 05:10 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
Mkirchie Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 796
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
There were a lot of balls made during the transition from urethane to reactive resin that meet the requirements of the new rules. In one of my posts, I mentioned the Columbia 300 Aftershock. The Brunswick Rhino was another.

This is exactly why my Critical Mass will likely never leave my bag. I've tried to get oil out of it in the past and pretty much nothing happens.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

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#199226 - 03/18/18 08:31 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: champ]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1153
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: champ


They'll be using their brand new Hy-Road Nano, puking its guts out going down the lane, flat 10 after flat 10 and they'll want to buy some new super soaker because its "stronger..
As with any ball it should match up to the bowler. A slow speed high REV bowler I can see this happening but as a higher speed matched or lower REV bowler ball may work well.
_________________________
Current Average 208

Current Bag 16lbs
Storm: Hy-Road,Hy-Road Nano,Intense,Son!Q
L/M Legends: New Standard, Yeah Baby

HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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