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#199127 - 02/23/18 06:52 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Online   content
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Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 649
A/S/L: 70/M/California

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#199129 - 02/23/18 09:27 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
wronghander Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 568
A/S/L: 33/M/NH
Lots of good stuff in here. I am still kind of a novice when it comes to layouts but I know my own game and what type of reaction I'm looking for when I buy a ball. I'll do my homework on the actual ball as well to see if it's a good fit for my game and will fill a hole in my arsenal. If I'm having it drilled by an online shop usually I'll send in a layout based on the manufacturer's drilling suggestions. Most of the time that ends up being their midlane layout.
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#199131 - 02/24/18 05:57 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1168
A/S/L: 62/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
When buying a new bowling ball;

How many know enough about bowling ball parameters, PSA drilling or dual angle drilling to instruct their PSO about what they want done?

How many just accept what their PSO gives them?


My PSO always seem to be on the same page with me. He knows how I bowl. When I do have a ball drilled we talk about it. He lays it out. I look at the layout before drilling and agree with the layout. I have enough knowledge about Dual Angle, dual angle ratio, how all this matches to my speed, rotation, and tilt to know what drillings match up to me. I also had balls drilled with layouts recommended in sessions with MO where he explained why with my PSO present. So I have total faith in my PSO more than myself to have the correct drilling on the ball.
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#199137 - 02/24/18 08:05 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: BOSStull]
82Boat69 Online   content
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 649
A/S/L: 70/M/California
On your PC, key in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Xf3EtqK8c

There are 4 videos that will play in sequence that will explain USBC latest efforts to explain why bowling balls hook.

While USBC claims some of these differences are significant, I canít make that same claim when I makes changes in my own drilled balls.

For example they talk about 3 inches of more hook for certain RG values, but only with a machine throwing the ball. I have more than 3 inches of difference in almost every ball I throw due to my own poor technique :-)

For purists, I'm sure they'll find comfort in this video. For me, I think I'll simply drill weaker balls to conserve RPM's and throw them easier to make them hook :-)

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#199138 - 02/25/18 10:21 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9738
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
So over 90% of bowlers say the ball hooks enough or too much? I can subscribe to that. Lane conditions contribute more to scoring then the ball? Hmmm, I would agree that some patterns score higher with the same equipment.

I have contended that Proprietors cater to lane conditions that help scoring. Supposedly, that makes for happier bowlers. That is, until the bowler gets on tournament conditions and can't bowl.

This has contributed to a huge difference between the good House bowler and a tournament one. I have a 25 y/o Pro on my team who is bowling on a house shot league for the first time. His average has lowered, and I have trouble consoling him. Can't let him get down. I repeatedly tell him to just let the ball roll. It will do the rest. He claims he turns too many boards and this is not how he was taught. I tell him, this is how the rest of bowlers want it... Easy patterns, and hooking balls.
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#199160 - 02/28/18 03:51 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Jason_C Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 11/15/17
Posts: 34
A/S/L: 41/M/New York
I usually talk it over with my PSO. I give my opinions on what the layout should be.. we discuss what I am looking for out of the ball and then we come to a decision based on my style, his experience and my desire. I always have one or two dual angle layouts in mind when I go in with the a ball to be drilled.

I have a ton of trust and faith in my guy but I still want my input to be valued and it is ... after all I know myself better than he does even after bowling together a few times to get a feel for my bowling style.

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#199217 - 03/16/18 08:54 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: Jason_C]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 858
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
Originally Posted By: Jason_C
I usually talk it over with my PSO. I give my opinions on what the layout should be.. we discuss what I am looking for out of the ball and then we come to a decision based on my style, his experience and my desire. I always have one or two dual angle layouts in mind when I go in with the a ball to be drilled.

I have a ton of trust and faith in my guy but I still want my input to be valued and it is ... after all I know myself better than he does even after bowling together a few times to get a feel for my bowling style.


THIS...I am not even close to an expert...BUT, I used to have a pretty good idea about layouts before dual angle from reading Larry Lichstein's book, and haven't put any effort into understanding that other than the observation that I can get to the same place with less math. I, too, trust the guy that punches my stuff. First, I had a custom thumb slug made and ALL the stuff I pass through the press feels exactly the same there. Second, if I have something in mind, I walk into the shop with my thoughts about which piece and how I want it drilled to accomplish what I am trying to accomplish. Sometimes we agree on the piece but disagree on the layout. I ALWAYS go with his recommendation. Sometimes there is a piece other than the one I selected that will do what I want to have it do better. Again, I ALWAYS go with his recommendation. Once or twice I have walked into the shop with a piece and layout in mind and I am right!!

[HEY! Don't act so surprised!]
I will be the first to admit that most bowlers do not want to put even this much thought into it...[shrug]
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#199219 - 03/16/18 10:52 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: 6_ball_man]
82Boat69 Online   content
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Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 649
A/S/L: 70/M/California
There are 3 schools of thought when it comes to laying out bowling balls. PSA, dual-angle and winging it :-)

Like everything else in bowling, drilling layouts have been reduced to mathematics. Every PSA layout can be converted to dual-angle and vice-versa. Any layout coming straight out of someone's brain using neither can be reverse-engineered into both. Nobody out there drilling bowling balls have any patents on a method that nobody else knows.

What I've discovered, it's the person or PSO that knows the game of the person they're drilling the ball for who will provide the most bang for the buck.

Probably, less than 5% of all bowlers can make use of 'all' the technology that new balls potentially have. The rest of us can pick just about any ball, slap on a good layout and will bowl identically to what we bowl now.

I don't know anyone, pros included, who drilled a new ball and became a better bowler. For most of us, we just want a ball we can take to multiple houses with multiple lane patterns and still hold up our heads :-)

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#199220 - 03/16/18 11:00 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9738
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
The problem, as I see, is that, most bowlers buy different balls. Then go right out and stand in the same spot and target the same arrow. Then fight to get the new ball to act the same as the old one.

I don't do dual angle and I don't wing it. But, I do use the two identifying marks on my balls, the Pin and the CG.
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Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
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#199221 - 03/16/18 11:31 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Online   content
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 649
A/S/L: 70/M/California
'Any' drilled bowling ball can be reverse-engineered back to dual angles quickly. Then, with a little math, can be re-engineered to PSA. We're all doing exactly the same thing, regardless of what we might think.

Dual angles and PSA layouts simply make the choices more predictable than eye-balling :-)

I agree about bowlers being insane; "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." LOL!

Whomever said this, was a bowler or anyone else stuck in muscle memory limbo. Many think it was Einstein but it wasn't.

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