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#199120 - 02/22/18 05:53 PM Time to throw the ball
soulman327 Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 11/01/17
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 59/m/indiana
Hello all,
After watching for 4 months it's time to start posting. I last bowled in a league 40 years ago. Started again 5 months ago, plus now throwing a fingertip ball and learning to throw a hook. Do fairly well most of the time...biggest problem is consistency. I've learned quite a bit from ya'll's posts with still more to learn.
Feel free to critique: (I could use the tips and you can't hurt my feelings)
Ball speed - ~14.5 mph
Start with right foot on 34 and end at foul line with left on about 22
Throw over (abt) the 11-12 board as my target
As is typical, I start having problems when oil carries down
I know my scores would improve if I used a "spare ball" - probably should do that
All in all, I bowl way better than I did at 19, and having more fun, so can't complain
_________________________
Bowling - at least you don't have to chase after your ball.

Hammer Black Widow Bite
DV8 Vandal Destroy

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#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#199122 - 02/23/18 09:04 AM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
There's a few things I noticed in your description. If you do want some more input, it is best to try to post a video too.

I always look at my starting position and finishing position off of the inside of my left foot (note, I'm right handed), not off of two different feet. That will let you know how much you drift horizontally on the approach from your starting and finishing position.

With agressive resin equipment, carry down doesn't really exist. You'll encounter carry down if someone on the pair (or yourself) is throwing urethane or plastic as a strike ball. With resin equipment, as the ball rolls down lane, the pores in the ball soak up the oil like a sponge and hold it in the cover. This removes the oil instead of carrying it down and creates early friction. The urethane and plastic equipment doesn't soak oil so whatever they pick up in the front can get dropped off in the back of the lane as carry down. What you think is carry down could really be the resin equipment hitting the depleted oil/early friction causing the ball to change motion very quickly and not hook much at all. This is often misread as being caused by too much oil where it is really caused by a lack of oil. To avoid this, you'll have to move away from the 11-12 board at the target because it's likely to get very dry there very quickly in league, especially on the right side of the lane.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

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#199123 - 02/23/18 09:23 AM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
What was your highest average in bowling and what year?
Do you have a 4 or 5 step approach or something else?
Do you throw a full-roller or a 3/4-roller?
What is the brand, model and weight of your current ball?
Where are the pin and CG on your current ball located?
What is your height and weight?
What sports besides bowling have you enjoyed in HS and since?
What's the name of the bowling alley you bowl in most often?

Even without a video, this information will allow readers to ascertain a lot about your game and give more meaningful tips.

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#199124 - 02/23/18 12:17 PM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1381
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: soulman327
Hello all,
After watching for 4 months it's time to start posting. I last bowled in a league 40 years ago. Started again 5 months ago, plus now throwing a fingertip ball and learning to throw a hook. Do fairly well most of the time...biggest problem is consistency. I've learned quite a bit from ya'll's posts with still more to learn.
Feel free to critique: (I could use the tips and you can't hurt my feelings)
Ball speed - ~14.5 mph
Start with right foot on 34 and end at foul line with left on about 22

Are you counting from the right? Or the left? Has to be from the left or you're drifting like a MADMAN! LOL
Quote:
Throw over (abt) the 11-12 board as my target
As is typical, I start having problems when oil carries down
I know my scores would improve if I used a "spare ball" - probably should do that
All in all, I bowl way better than I did at 19, and having more fun, so can't complain


Yes, learning to use a spare ball for your 10-pins (or 7 for left) will help you quite a bit. Yes, you CAN hit those with your strike ball, but you have to change your delivery and, for consistency's sake, I find it much easier to teach and to bowl keeping as much consistent as possible. smile And, eventually, you can use it for nearly all spares (which is what the pros do - it keeps the oil patterns out of most of your spares).

First - you're having fun! That's the best.

Second - aside from the complicated questions that 82 always asks. . . a video would be helpful. From directly behind and from directly at the side.

Third - don't worry about your ball. Honestly, you can have a good time bowling and score reasonably well even with a plastic ball - you just have to change your line. (plastic would be MUCH more direct, obviously, but you can have fun with it. Just don't expect to average 200 with it! LOL) You have a Hammer Back Widow Bite - it's reactive, moderate (probably lighter by today's standards, but who cares? You can get some hook from it) and you're fingertip. This is GOOD. You will have more control and some more power. I would take it to your Pro Shop and make sure it's thoroughly cleaned and get it to box-stock surface. This is a good baseline, then you can ask them to rough it up a bit if you are on an oily house, whatever. smile

Fourth - we don't have to deal with as much carry-down as we used to. Urethane balls (as per USBC) and plastic and rubber didn't absorb oil, they moved it. Reactive balls absorb more oil than they move (that's one reason they hook more, they absorb the oil and grab the lane surface and "create" a line . . . you know?) so while they DO move oil, they also absorb it. But you're right - you do have to learn to adjust. The old adage of "miss-right, move-right" still holds true. Do it systematically and in a nice 2:1 ratio (2 with your feet, 1 with your target) - IN GENERAL, this will get you on the right track.

Fifth - I would recommend starting with a spare system. Yes, they're a bit of a crutch, but when you're learning, they DO help. They're a good starting point. Look up the 3-6-9 system. I still use a modified version of that, today. Then practice.

Sixth - practice. I bring a 6-sided dice (well, die) and roll it. When I roll a 1, I have to hit the 7 pin. When I roll a 2, it's the 4 pin. When I roll a 3, it's the 2 pin. When I roll a 4, it' the 3. a 5 means the 6. a 6 means the 10. Basically, starting left and moving right pin by pin. No matter what you do, do it with a system so you're not just throwing the ball. And spares are going to lift your game SIGNIFICANTLY. I'd MUCH rather bowl with someone who throws a lot of spares and doesn't leave a lot of opens, than someone who throws a bunch of strikes but can't pick anything up. . .


Hope this helps.

For now, though, don't go all technical. Get your swing down; get your spares down; keep having fun. Relax! smile

Where in Cali are you?
_________________________
Avg: 206
Season High Gm: 279 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 762 / Lifetime: 762

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#199128 - 02/23/18 08:34 PM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
soulman327 Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 11/01/17
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 59/m/indiana
WOW! Thanks for the great responses! Learned much from them, as usual. Had no idea about the oil.

Mark, I'll have to look, but guess my left foot would be on maybe 39? And yes, mmalsed, I am counting from the right and I do drift like a madman, I guess. I'm still trying to figure things out. In the past 4-5 months, I've tried numerous things- a three step approach, 4 step approach, ball starting position at my waist and at my chin, right foot starting on board 20, 30, and 34....probably no one right answer. As has been said, adjustments must be made as the game(s) progresses. I will start taking my spare ball along.
mmalsed, I'm in Indiana, actually.
I'll try to get a video in the next few days.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

82boat69:
What was your highest average in bowling and what year?
162/now
Do you have a 4 or 5 step approach or something else?
4 step
Do you throw a full-roller or a 3/4-roller?
What are these?
What is the brand, model and weight of your current ball?
15# Hammer Black Widow Bite
Where are the pin and CG on your current ball located?
No idea
What is your height and weight?
6'2" and 250
What sports besides bowling have you enjoyed in HS and since?
Slow pitch softball. golf, and volleyball
What's the name of the bowling alley you bowl in most often?
Tri County Bowl in Jerseyville
_________________________
Bowling - at least you don't have to chase after your ball.

Hammer Black Widow Bite
DV8 Vandal Destroy

Top
#199130 - 02/24/18 12:10 AM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
The difference between a full-roller and 3/4 roller is based on the circumference of your ball track. A full-roller will have a maximum circumference and the ball will track between the finger and thumb holes. A 3/4 roller will have a shorter circumference and the ball will track outside the thumb and fingers. 3/4 rollers have an advantage because with the same effort they can generate more RPM's. Also, a 3/4 will skid further since each revolution puts less ball surface on the lane. Less surface, less friction.

You are using an older ball, but if you look you will find a solid dot that's a different color than your ball. You will also find 2 other markings on your ball. One is a CG (center of gravity) and the other marks the MB (max-bias or PSA {positive spin axis}). From their location in relationship to your grip, we can determine how your ball was drilled and what kind of performance you can expect.

So, put your ball in front of you with your finger holes at the top. Your pin, will probably be somewhere above the right finger-hole. It will be a solid dot about 1/4 in diameter. Now look for a circle about and inch or so in diameter that will look like a telescopic sight with cross-hairs in the center. That will be the CG. Finally, in a roughly straight line from you pin, past the CG you should find another circle about 1/2 in diameter. That will be the mass bias.

Where you bowl looks nice. Is it 16 lanes? Are you ever there when the person who dresses the lanes is running a machine up and down the lanes? If you are, ask him what the house pattern is. Usually, it will be something like 36-40 feet long and from 10-10 boards wide. It may be different, but in the ball park.

From this information we can then determine what should be happening using the initial information you posted.

You mentioned you're using a finger-tip ball. Are you able to hold it comfortably or do you feel like you need to grip it when you deliver?

Can you already throw some kind of hook?

Let me know and we'll proceed. Of course, if you can get someone to take a video of you with their iPhone, post it here and we can save a lot of time. You can even take a picture of your bowling ball's grip and post that.

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#199142 - 02/25/18 02:25 PM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: 82Boat69]
soulman327 Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 11/01/17
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 59/m/indiana
Regarding 3/4 or full roller, I have no idea.

As far as the bowling center, yes, it is very nice with 16 lanes. I've talked to several people and it is a typical house pattern...similar to what you said.

Sometimes it seems I have to grip, but it is generally due to my thumb being so dry (pretty much all my fingers).

Hook quite often but depends more on the lanes. Certain lane conditions give me more difficulty than others. Generally, I think I'm still in the learning curve causing my inconsistencies.

I plan to throw some practice tonight. I'll take my camera an run a video.
Thanks!


Attachments
2018-02-25 12.59.41.jpg

2018-02-25 13.00.24.jpg


_________________________
Bowling - at least you don't have to chase after your ball.

Hammer Black Widow Bite
DV8 Vandal Destroy

Top
#199146 - 02/26/18 10:02 AM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: soulman327
Regarding 3/4 or full roller, I have no idea.

Immediately after throwing a shot, when the ball comes back look at the rings of oil on the ball. If the rings are on the side of both the thumb and finger holes, it's 3/4. if the rings pass through the area between the thumb and finger holes, it is a full roller.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

Top
#199151 - 02/26/18 11:07 PM Re: Time to throw the ball [Re: soulman327]
soulman327 Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 11/01/17
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 59/m/indiana
Gotcha. I bowl league tomorrow. I'll check on that.
_________________________
Bowling - at least you don't have to chase after your ball.

Hammer Black Widow Bite
DV8 Vandal Destroy

Top



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