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#199107 - 02/22/18 07:40 AM Informal poll
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
When buying a new bowling ball;

How many know enough about bowling ball parameters, PSA drilling or dual angle drilling to instruct their PSO about what they want done?

How many just accept what their PSO gives them?

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#199109 - 02/22/18 08:56 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
well, I don't like dual angle drilling. And, have no balls with a PSA mark, as all are symmetrical.

My main specs are RG and Diff; >2.52 RG and lower then .032 Diff. From there, I move the pin above/outside for leverage drill and more length. Or below for earlier hook.
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#199110 - 02/22/18 10:11 AM Re: Informal poll [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Symmetrical balls do have a max bias (PSA). If you draw a straight line from the pin through the CG, the max bias will be located 6-3/4 inches beyond the CG on that line. Because it always falls in the same place on symmetrical balls, it doesn't need to be marked. After a symmetrical ball is drilled the MB will be located elsewhere.

PSA and dual angle are the same with different nomenclature and methods to determine positions on a ball. Any dual angle grip can be defined in PSA terms and vice versa. For example 'pin-buffer' in PSA nomenclature is the same as the VAL angle in dual angle. A shorter pin-buffer is the equivalence of a narrower VAL angle.

As for pin-up and pin-down, check this video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxx62iJGfGk

There is a difference, but allowing for the normal variations in a person’s delivery, I’m uncertain that difference is significant enough to consider in drilling a ball.

I think it would be interesting to have a ‘blind’ test to see how many people could actually tell how a ball was drilled if they couldn’t see the pin, CG and MB. I use to believe they made a difference, I no longer do. I’m now of the opinion drilling only accounts for 5% or less of a ball’s reaction and is reduced by a bowler’s speed and RPM’s to a point that it is indistinguishable from normal variations in delivery. For those with higher speeds and higher RPM’s the opposite would be true.

I own a pin-down Storm Lock and a pin-down Storm Hy-Road. The lock, based on the Perfect Scale' is 26% more aggressive, yet, both begin to transition at the same point for me, and the Hy-Road actually has more motion. A video shows the Hy-Road retained more speed and RPM's which created a stronger back-end. I was able to recreate the same results with an Ebonite Cyclone and a Storm Lock drilled 50 x 5 x 50.

I guess what I'm wondering is, are bowlers really understanding what they are seeing on the lane or simply repeating what they think their ball is doing based on what they've read or heard.

Until I started drilling my own equipment, I thought all the values had some meaningful impact on my delivered ball. I no longer believe that.

I'm now beginning to think we've been brainwashed by advertisements and hearsay evidence to the point that we see what we believe not what is actually taking place.

I've been bowling since 1961 and only in the last 2 years have I begun to question what I read about bowling balls. What started out as an effort to find the best drilling configuration for myself has simply led me to believe I can drill a ball anyway I like and the difference will be negligible. Additionally, high-end balls are only useful for 5% of all bowlers. The rest of us mere mortals can use a lot less ball and save a lot of money in the process.

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#199112 - 02/22/18 12:07 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1381
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
I typically speak with my PSO.

I know what I know and I know what I don't know (or at least I know when I start to wander outside my sandbox. . .)

I know enough to have an intelligent discussion with him, but I let him be the expert on drilling and layout and such.
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#199114 - 02/22/18 12:21 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1159
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
I have an idea what I want a ball to do on what condition, and my PSO suggests the angles and distances needed to get the desired reaction.
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

Bowl up a Storm!

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#199115 - 02/22/18 12:22 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 433
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
The bowling ball companies publish only certain criteria that are important. They tell you additional information regarding the what the coverstock is, a little about the actual finish (polished / matte, etc.) and a little about the core (like a picture of it).
They don't provide information on the coefficient of friction nor do they provide a specification for the oil absorption rate. As for myself I would tend to select balls that would have a much slower absorption rate if I knew what it was from the start.
I'd like to know better what the different cores are supposed to accomplish in more specific terms and not in generic terms.
For example, I purchased a Storm Optimus ball as it's RG was pretty low and differential seemed pretty good to me. Listening to the advertising it seemed that the ball was going to keep the pins from flying up and to help keep them down low to get more pin action and carry. Sounded good.
After using this ball I did have a few games in the 250's and 260's early on, but the reaction of this ball diminished way too quickly. Even with the 1500 grit polished finished it was sucking up oil like a sponge. Two other much better bowlers than me had similar results. All of us don't use that ball any longer.
If ball companies would publish oil absorption rates, I would not have purchased this ball. What's stranger yet is that I bought a Marvel Pearl with the same coverstock and polished finish, it just works and works and works. Makes no sense. The specs on the Optimus and Marvel Pearl are quite similar.

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#199116 - 02/22/18 01:12 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I don't know how bowling ball makers polish their balls. I could probably find a youtube to show me.

When I buy a new ball, I always polish it with Extender Polish before I ever use it. I never have a problem with my equipment soaking up oil.

If I choose to sand a ball and leave it sanded for an extra oily condition, I then make sure to wipes after every shot, clean it afterwards and polish again.

Ironically, while experimenting with different dual angle parms, I found sanded balls performed worst. On fresh oil they seemed okay, but that only lasted a few frames. I must not have enough on the ball to used sanded equipment. Any extra loss of speed or RPM's and I start leaving corner pins.

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#199118 - 02/22/18 02:21 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 433
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
I have Powerhouse Extender Polish and Storm's Xtra Shine.
I have never used either (and no intention of) on a reactive resin ball.
I only use these on my urethane Polar Ice or Mix spare balls to make sure they go straight.
The matte finished balls that seem to pretty well for me are Storm's Torrent and the IQ Tour Nano. Both are solid coverstocks. The Reign On is a hybrid with a 3K to 4K grit finish and it works pretty well, too... I doubt I'll ever put any polish on these.
Use Reacta Shine on shiny reactive resin balls. Makes for a good backend reaction.

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#199119 - 02/22/18 02:36 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
hmmm, I watched that video and picked out the pin under each time. The added length of the pin over drill was easy to see, (out to the 7 board). It got out farther on the lane when over 4th arrow and snapped more. The pin under balls never made it to the 10 board and had much less snap.

I always wet sand when refinishing my balls. Never use abralon pads. The grit is different between the two. There was a long discussion on this in our past here. This included a chart, cross referencing between them.

I guess I contend polish fills the holes in porous covers. Doesn't that defeat their purpose. IDK, just never do it. Only one of my balls ever gets polished, a particle pearl.

And, My PSO won't refinish any of my Lane Master balls as the surface is too hard.

Besides, you can never get the same finish on a ball as when it was new. Since, it is finished in the factory when the surface is still hot. Was told that by Cardinale, Pinel and Bacca, all former ball Co owners. That is why I hold the sand paper in my hand, while the ball is spinning so I can feel the heat that it generates. No heat, not good enough.


Edited by Dennis Michael (02/22/18 02:47 PM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#199121 - 02/22/18 07:05 PM Re: Informal poll [Re: 82Boat69]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2127
A/S/L: 30/M/AZ
I used to think about layouts a lot but it didn't translate to pins on my average or having any more fun. Now, I have two layouts I put on everything.

I've also never found a dull surface that can carry for me on a house shot. I have a very rolly release, and any amount of surface burns up.

When I was at my best, I was enamored with weak, symmetric cores with my favorite layout. I got away from that for several years, but now that I'm getting back to it, I'm seeing signs of the guy who used to strike a lot. We'll see what happens.
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