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#199143 - 02/25/18 03:30 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
they do help. Since our house put them in, it took an adjustment, but I use them. I get a lot more length looking down lane. Roll outside the last right mark. That's the 10 board at 45 feet. So, my breakpoint is at the 8 board 45 feet normally.



Edited by Dennis Michael (02/25/18 03:30 PM)
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#199145 - 02/26/18 08:23 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
According to USBC, a person could actually experience a 37 RPM difference between a ball with an RG of 2.46 versus 2.80.


I decided to have some fun with numbers from the USBC. I picked two RG's at the outer boudaries of the the middle 50 % of the legal range (2.545 and 2.715). I picked two coefficients of friction within the allowable range of 0 to 0.35 (0.12 and 0.24). I used the numbers to calculate the rotational acceleration that would result from a few different combinations. Rotational acceleration depends on the torque caused by friction and the RG which basically indicates how the ball responds to the torque.

Larger coefficients of friction mean more torque and larger rotational acceleration.

Larger RG's mean that the ball responds less to torque and has smaller rotational acceleration.

When I held friction constant but increased the RG from 2.545 to 2.715, the new rotational acceleration was 88% of the original.

However, holding RG constant but reducing the coefficient of friction by 1/2, which is also well within legality, causes the new rotational acceleration to be 50% of the original.

The bottom line is that changes to friction will be way more significant mathematically compared to RG since the range of legal RG's does not allow RG to change significantally compared to the range of legal coefficients of friction which can cause torque to change by a significant percentage.

As a side note, I wish we had range finders at my center.

Mark
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#199147 - 02/26/18 10:49 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: Mkirchie]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 659
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I'm convinced that 'if' I managed to get a ball drilled perfectly for my delivery and for my THS, inconsistencies in my speed and release would make the drilling a mute point.

For pros, they might know, but not me. I've got balls of the same brand and model drilled quite different that react based on their surface more than any other value I tried to optimize. As I said in an earlier post, 3 more inches of hook is nothing compared to the inconsistencies I experience delivery to delivery.

Building an arsenal will be as simple as buying balls that hook less or more based on surface, not multiple variables that may or may not be optimized.

What will be interesting is what happens to my average. As I age I expect to get lower, but in the near term if it goes up, maybe I can save others a few bucks and help them improve too.

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#199148 - 02/26/18 11:03 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: Mkirchie]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 433
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
Not sure, but you mention that the allowable range for coefficient of friction to be 0-0.35. I guess that must be for the ball itself. I wasn't aware that there was a spec for that.
So the conclusion is that the ball's friction tends to have a greater effect on its ability to make changes in direction than does its RG. Hope I'm getting this right...
As for my experiences I'm beginning to really like lower RG balls and those that have surfaces that like grabbing the lane on the dry boards. smile
Maybe I'm slowing down.

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#199150 - 02/26/18 12:11 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: djp1080]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: djp1080
Not sure, but you mention that the allowable range for coefficient of friction to be 0-0.35. I guess that must be for the ball itself. I wasn't aware that there was a spec for that.

Since the coefficient of friction depends on two surfaces, it is measured between a dry lane surface and the ball. They drag a ball over a dry lane surface in an apparatus to keep the ball from rotating and measure the force required to drag the ball at a constant speed. The coefficient of friction is then calculated from this experiment. (The friction force would be the same as the measured force becuase the ball is moving at a constant speed. Then, in this test the coefficient of friction would be the ratio of the friction force to the weight of the ball.) Note, I double checked the specs and the coefficient of friction really ranges from 0-0.32.

Under the USBC approved specs, friction matters more. Not that they would or should or even could from the engineering viewpoint, but RG would be more significant compared to the current range of friction if RG could legally range from 1.46 to 3.8.

Mark
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#199152 - 02/28/18 04:46 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Mark, I bowl at 2 centers. One with range finder marks and the other one, not.

Since, I bowled at the marked center in 3 leagues for a few years, it became common for me to target there. Moving to the center without them was very difficult. Not only in targeting. But, my eyes tended to look downlane rather then focus at the arrows. And, I missed my target routinely. I would look up during the approach.

To combat this, I now focus at the reflection of the top of the 6 pin on the lane. That is my target. My ball never reaches that point, but is targeted at it.

I do use arrows for spares.
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#199154 - 02/28/18 08:00 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: Dennis Michael]
6_ball_man Online   content
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 860
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
I now focus at the reflection of the top of the 6 pin on the lane. That is my target. My ball never reaches that point, but is targeted at it.


This is important...sometimes, when I get far enough left (right hander) my break point via the math is in the moat. Obviously, the ball doesn't usually get there without a huge gaff in Execution. In fact, the conditions laid out virtually assure the ball cannot get to the moat, even if I miss right a skosh. I sometimes jokingly tell non-bowlers that all you have to do now-a-daze is to stand left and aim it at the moat.
This bothers my analytical brain some...LoL
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#199157 - 02/28/18 09:12 AM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 433
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
I find that by moving my target to the dots allows me to feel comfortable playing more inside than ever before. Especially in our senior league where the lanes tend to be pretty dry. Some mornings I'm starting by standing on board 32 with my slide foot. Just a couple years ago you'd never see me out that far.
I did target just right of the range markers a few years ago, but I found that I tended to get my ball farther down the lane without much roll. By using the dots my ball gets into a roll much easier. Maybe it's just that I'm getting older and slower... smile

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#199161 - 02/28/18 06:38 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
steveA Online   content
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 578
A/S/L: 58/male uk
I've stopped playing at the house with down lane markers , but when I was there I'd picture the shot down the lane , through the arrows and where it would be at the markers, If I targeted the arrows the ball would hook more , then targeting the down lane markers but still pass over both points. Used to use it for adjustment, not sure why it made a difference but it did.
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#199162 - 02/28/18 08:09 PM Re: Hype Versus Reality [Re: 82Boat69]
Dennis Michael Online   jestera
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Steve, it's not scientific but, to target farther downlane, you would have a tendency to extend your arm farther. Thus, getting more length in your ball.
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