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#198935 - 01/29/18 12:23 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1381
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Big problem with using a single thing as THE problem with everything in bowling.

One could now argue (and is often done) that urethane is now THE problem with bowling as it brings back all of the issues that used to be big - carry down and such.


The "good old days" were rarely as good as they are portrayed. I'm trying to think of the item we were laughing about - OH YES, it was Blizzard opening a "Vanilla" World of Warcraft server. People were thinking, YES, it was SOOO fun . . . oh, except for the mandatory 20-40person raids, oh and that one mandatory raid that sucked so bad, oh and skill grinding, oh and . . . and . . . and . . .


So if you want to get rid of reactive or resin, you might as well get rid of urethane and go back to rubber - because those were the "real" good old days. Heck, get rid of the third hole because bowling was PURE when it only had one finger hole and a thumb hole. Shoot - while you're at it, go back to wooden balls. And be sure to go back to the more expensive and very irregular old-style wood lanes with a lane person to use a squirt bottle and dust mop to lay down oil - all of which meant you had NO idea what the oil was like on the lane - it depended on the person who squirted and mopped, and what oil they had.


Let's get real. We now have a very controllable lane surface, a very controllable oil pattern, balls that react in a controllable fashion and with more power that even someone with a delivery like Nords (very low speed, very low RPM, very low axis) can score pretty darned well.

Let's celebrate it.

Let's not be bitter at someone who can't make right-side spares. I've given away a white-dot (or actually a viz-a-ball) to a guy who just could not pick up a 10-pin. He averaged over 190 (often carrying over 200 for lengths of time) and once he got that plastic ball drilled up, was a friggin machine (with a weird delivery - but who cares???)

Let's celebrate him - and (after we're done bowling with him) let's help him out. (I did have to really work on my father-in-law to STOP coaching people we're bowling against. Coach AFTER . . . LOL )


Yes, there are issues we need to work through. I have a hard time with big crankers who cross my line twice and really mess with me. No bitterness - but rather how do I get THROUGH him?

Nord is actually a great picture of this. He's worked through issue after issue and finally found his theories and his methodologies and is greatly improving his game. Applause!


(I'm writing this while watching Iron Horse Bluegrass and Steve 'n' Seagulls play bluegrass versions of hard rock and metal songs. They don't seem bitter about this "electric" music stuff . . . they get out their (beautiful) acoustic instruments, implant their tongues firmly in their cheek (Steve 'n' Seagulls) and play some rockin Metallica or AC/DC or whatever. Nothing about the "good old days" but rather just kicking some buttinsky, getting some chuckles, and making some GREAT music.)
_________________________
Avg: 206
Season High Gm: 279 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 762 / Lifetime: 762

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#198937 - 01/29/18 01:48 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: Mkirchie]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: Mkirchie
That is what I meant in my post. I've seen a lot of negative opinions in different places online about urethane and I always wonder about how bowlers who have that opinion try to utilize such balls. If it doesn't match what they want to do, that is not a reason to blast them as useless.

Most modern league players do not understand what urethane is or how it was designed to work or what it is supposed to do.
They are used to their reactive balls that move in the back of the lane and don't understand the concept of a ball making its move in the front of the lane and laying off in the back of the lane.
The pro at our shop was telling me a recent customer wanted a ball for the dry so he bought a Widow Urethane and was mad when it hooked liked crazy.
What did he expect a urethane ball at 500 grit with the Gasmask core to do?
Of course it will roll off your feet.
That is what it was designed to do.
And it is not for dry lanes!
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

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#198939 - 01/29/18 03:37 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: mmalsed]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: mmalsed
Big problem with using a single thing as THE problem with everything in bowling.

One could now argue (and is often done) that urethane is now THE problem with bowling as it brings back all of the issues that used to be big - carry down and such.


The "good old days" were rarely as good as they are portrayed. I'm trying to think of the item we were laughing about - OH YES, it was Blizzard opening a "Vanilla" World of Warcraft server. People were thinking, YES, it was SOOO fun . . . oh, except for the mandatory 20-40person raids, oh and that one mandatory raid that sucked so bad, oh and skill grinding, oh and . . . and . . . and . . .


So if you want to get rid of reactive or resin, you might as well get rid of urethane and go back to rubber - because those were the "real" good old days. Heck, get rid of the third hole because bowling was PURE when it only had one finger hole and a thumb hole. Shoot - while you're at it, go back to wooden balls. And be sure to go back to the more expensive and very irregular old-style wood lanes with a lane person to use a squirt bottle and dust mop to lay down oil - all of which meant you had NO idea what the oil was like on the lane - it depended on the person who squirted and mopped, and what oil they had.


Let's get real. We now have a very controllable lane surface, a very controllable oil pattern, balls that react in a controllable fashion and with more power that even someone with a delivery like Nords (very low speed, very low RPM, very low axis) can score pretty darned well.

Let's celebrate it.

Let's not be bitter at someone who can't make right-side spares. I've given away a white-dot (or actually a viz-a-ball) to a guy who just could not pick up a 10-pin. He averaged over 190 (often carrying over 200 for lengths of time) and once he got that plastic ball drilled up, was a friggin machine (with a weird delivery - but who cares???)

Let's celebrate him - and (after we're done bowling with him) let's help him out. (I did have to really work on my father-in-law to STOP coaching people we're bowling against. Coach AFTER . . . LOL )


Yes, there are issues we need to work through. I have a hard time with big crankers who cross my line twice and really mess with me. No bitterness - but rather how do I get THROUGH him?

Nord is actually a great picture of this. He's worked through issue after issue and finally found his theories and his methodologies and is greatly improving his game. Applause!


(I'm writing this while watching Iron Horse Bluegrass and Steve 'n' Seagulls play bluegrass versions of hard rock and metal songs. They don't seem bitter about this "electric" music stuff . . . they get out their (beautiful) acoustic instruments, implant their tongues firmly in their cheek (Steve 'n' Seagulls) and play some rockin Metallica or AC/DC or whatever. Nothing about the "good old days" but rather just kicking some buttinsky, getting some chuckles, and making some GREAT music.)

A funny, entertaining and valuable response.
I agree, lets not turn into a group of angry villagers with torches and hunt down the monster killing bowling.
But...
But...
There is something wrong with the game today that modern ball tech has caused and that is the thing that needs to be corrected.
I don't want back the horrible inconsistent lane conditions of the 60s.
What I do want is house shots gone, replaced with a flatter pattern that requires control and shot making to get strikes.
I want reactive balls gone and replaced with something that does not give you area, or room, or much forgiveness.
A ball type that forces you to put that ball on your line with the right speed, rotation and accuracy to be rewarded.
If we have to go back to only urethane, or even rubber, then I am fine with that.
People can still use two hands if they want, or use their thumbless styles or whatever.
Let the pattern be such that it lends itself to all styles, but only those players who can repeat shots and make their spares will do well.
The chuckers, flingers and hackers will just have to learn how to bowl since there will be no more wonder balls to protect them.
The majority of bowlers in leagues just use a colorful plastic ball and chuck it right up the middle anyway, so they will never notice any difference that a change in pattern or ball tech would produce.
It is those players who grew up with resin and built their whole game around its forgiveness and hitting power that will be scratching their heads as their averages plummet.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#198940 - 01/29/18 03:53 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 292
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
Say what you want about my next statement but deep down you know I'm right... bowling is a dying sport... And its not dying slow, its going quick... Its becoming mellenials going for fun and more so going to a bar and drinking... I personally agree that the balls should change based on personal opinion, but I mean come on... Whats going to happen when suddenly the few young people that like bowling for the sport of it are told that "Oh sorry your too good with that ball you have to use what we used back in the day" Its completely insane! That's basically what it is at this point. I grew up with reactive balls but before you make any kind of judgement look at my bag and realize I throw almost exclusively urethane... If you make it a harder for everybody to score the younger people will be done... Simple as that... At the end of the day say that you want reactive gone and harder patterns for whatever reason but from a younger point of view all I see is looking back and wishing to go back to then
_________________________
2 handed stats:

High game: 288 (2 times now!)
High series: 710
Average: 197

Bag: Original Burgandy Hammer, Genesis the judge, motiv Forza gt, motiv Arctic sniper

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#198941 - 01/29/18 03:57 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 292
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
I get more [censored] now for being two handed then you could possibly imagine... And its just because its different and new and people don't like that... People don't like when something brand new is better then what they've been doing for years... Again, no disrespect through any of this Nord, if it were up to me id love to go back and bowl with just urethane and rubber but its selfish to want that now adays. I just think its important to view this from the eyes of somebody in the generation that this will effect the most
_________________________
2 handed stats:

High game: 288 (2 times now!)
High series: 710
Average: 197

Bag: Original Burgandy Hammer, Genesis the judge, motiv Forza gt, motiv Arctic sniper

Top
#198942 - 01/29/18 04:02 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: Dylan585]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
Say what you want about my next statement but deep down you know I'm right... bowling is a dying sport... And its not dying slow, its going quick... Its becoming mellenials going for fun and more so going to a bar and drinking... I personally agree that the balls should change based on personal opinion, but I mean come on... Whats going to happen when suddenly the few young people that like bowling for the sport of it are told that "Oh sorry your too good with that ball you have to use what we used back in the day" Its completely insane! That's basically what it is at this point. I grew up with reactive balls but before you make any kind of judgement look at my bag and realize I throw almost exclusively urethane... If you make it a harder for everybody to score the younger people will be done... Simple as that... At the end of the day say that you want reactive gone and harder patterns for whatever reason but from a younger point of view all I see is looking back and wishing to go back to then

I don't think we would lose anyone.
Younger players who come for fun just use house balls most of the time.
They are not bowlers.
Most league bowlers use plastic.
They are not bowlers either.
Only the serious bowlers in league will be upset that reactive is gone.
But...if they are serious about saving the game, then they will understand the reasons and embrace the change for greater lane honesty.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#198943 - 01/29/18 04:22 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 292
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
Who decides what is considered saving the game?
_________________________
2 handed stats:

High game: 288 (2 times now!)
High series: 710
Average: 197

Bag: Original Burgandy Hammer, Genesis the judge, motiv Forza gt, motiv Arctic sniper

Top
#198945 - 01/29/18 04:52 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: nord
I don't think we would lose anyone.
Younger players who come for fun just use house balls most of the time.
They are not bowlers.
Most league bowlers use plastic.
They are not bowlers either.
Only the serious bowlers in league will be upset that reactive is gone.
But...if they are serious about saving the game, then they will understand the reasons and embrace the change for greater lane honesty.


I am worried that we would lose a lot of bowlers. In my non-money league, more than one-half the bowlers all use resin exclusively so that is not the case at my center in northern NJ. A few besides me have a urethane ball but they hardly get used.

The concern I have is that the bowlers who might own 1-2 resin balls and never developed a strong release will be challenged to improve more, which they might not have the time or money to do. To me, it is unlikely that more than a few bowlers would embrace the new challenge for the sake of integrity. We now live in an instant gratification society, resin helps that with bowling.

Unfortunately, I agree with Dylan. It is a dying sport and sadly it has been for a long time. USBC membership has been on a decline since peaking in 78-79, well before resin and a few years before urethane. I do feel that it is part of inevitable societal changes and I do not think we will ever see bowling back where it was in its golden years. Bowling is a patient in critical condition and at this point I just want to make sure it does not become mini-golf/skee-ball instead of trying to bring it back to its glory days.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

Top
#198946 - 01/29/18 05:59 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: Dylan585]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
Who decides what is considered saving the game?

I do Dylan, I do. rotfl

In all seriousness though, we have to save this game.
How can we do it?
What is killing it?
Is bowling just a game of the past?
Are the glory days really gone forever?
Did stupid cell phones and social media destroy it?
Or did ball manufacturers destroy it by taking the attention away from bowlers and putting in on their latest flavor of ball?
How do we get people to respect bowling again, to honor it?
Bowling used to be right on a box of Wheaties as a game of champions for God's sake.
What happened???


Attachments
Wheaties Bowling.jpg


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#198948 - 01/29/18 06:58 PM Re: Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane [Re: nord]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 818
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: nord
Is bowling just a game of the past?
Are the glory days really gone forever?


Unfortunately the cereal box image, as cool as it is to see, provides the answer since it was from 55 years ago. As much as I love watching the PBA shows from the 80's and 90's that I watched as a kid, they do feel like they were dated compared to the culture when they were recorded. Resin might or might not have contributed to the decline, but it had already started before then.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

Top
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