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#199041 - 02/10/18 11:14 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
wronghander Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 581
A/S/L: 33/M/NH
I bowl at my local Brunswick Zone and it's probably one of the better ones but still leaves a lot to be desired. I do like that I get 4 free practice games per week for bowling in 2 leagues, and I like that they have almost a full house of leagues on Friday nights. Other than that it leaves a lot to be desired.

I concur that the food is horrible and the selections suck. Can't even get what I want to drink because they took out the vending machines and they only have 4 soda options from the tap and that's it. So I never spend any money there. It's $3 for a small soda anyway and that's WITH the league discount.

The people that work at the counter there are nice but they aren't bowlers and it's really frustrating trying to open bowl there. They've gotten a little better with not being all cosmic bowling all the time but they don't want to give me a pair of lanes even when the place is empty and they don't want to space out open bowlers either, if there are 6 lanes going in the whole place they'll literally use lanes 1-6.

My other gripe is that the lanes haven't been consistent week over week. Never know what we're going to get. They keep tweaking the shot due to a high number of honor scores even though they absolutely do nothing for bowlers who shoot 300 or 800. You're lucky if they even announce it. I don't mind if they want to put out a tougher shot but at least be consistent. I've subbed a few times in a scratch league in another house and they make it a little more difficult than your average house shot but it's at least the same week over week. So I know what equipment to bring and it's a lot easier transporting 3 balls than it is 5 or 6.
_________________________
High Game: 300 (5)
High Series: 803

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#199044 - 02/11/18 10:43 AM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9774
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
You have raised other valid points, Wronghander. Yes, all vending machines are gone, along with bottled water and energy drinks. And, only a short selection at the concession remains. We do pay $3 for a small drink, but, it's refillable during league play.

It used to be common for bowlers to come from work and eat at the center. Not any more as the food is not good and it is priced too high.

All of the workers order out for lunch and get it delivered. so, the bowlers started doing the same, bringing in fast food sandwiches, subs and the like, the house complained that they have a sign on the door of no outside food or drinks. So, the bowlers told the Manager to stop hisown employees from doing it first. Hasn't happened. The rule now has been changed to no outside food that is also served at the center. so, no coke, but you can bring in root beer. And, no pizza but Subs are ok.

It's very ridiculous.

About the lane consistency. That has been a pet peeve of mine for years. To the point that this center borrowed the laneman from another to set up the oiler machine. He did find broken parts and a pattern that matched nothing programmed.

Now, if they can oil just before leagues, instead of 3 pm for a 7 pm league. And, allow open bowlers on lanes in between. Their claim is, leagues can't stop the House from earning money. Hey, it's only a time switch.

And, it does seem to be a policy to pile open bowlers on top of another. I refuse to be assigned lanes and request specific lanes when I go. Usually, far away from any kids.

I once had a group of kids next to me. They were unruly, lots of noise, 4 on the approach at a time and had NO courtesy. I took time to instruct them of bowling courtesy. Well, they complained that the Old Guy admonished them. When the Manager came over to talk with me, I suggested he control his building and abide buy the rules posted all over the building of bowler courtesy.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#199045 - 02/11/18 01:45 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 662
A/S/L: 70/M/California
When did consistency become a requirement? The whole point of competition is to see which player(s) make the best adjustments. How interesting would golf be if the players simply played the same hole over and over?

The number 1 reason bowling is a failing business, its become so simple because of high-tech balls and typical house 'slots' that nobody needs to practice. Inflated averages help no one.

I love to watch wannabes averaging 220 come up against a tough shot and suddenly start shooting 160's because their ball doesn't hook as 'expected' and they can't pick up the pins they leave.

If you bowl where there's a different personality for each pair or each lane, consider yourself lucky.

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#199046 - 02/11/18 01:56 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1181
A/S/L: 62/M /Georgia
Ok here are the PROS and CONS of my Brunswick center that I could think of.

PROS
Good league base( Established leagues and teams keep coming back)
Good youth league base
Lane oil is applied right before leagues with Kegel ICON
Manager and employees are courteous
Center allows bottle non-alcaholic drinks
Fresh Paint
Host local tournaments( They do a great job hosting)
Good Pro Shop
Lineage is still reasonable. Most leagues $12-$16 depending on prize fund
Keep 2 lanes as a buffer or fallback during leagues,
2 free games per week
Restrooms are clean.
Open 9am till 12am

Cons
League base is declining
Lane oil starts at 18in which i dislike but is consistent. Have adapted
No vending machines
Snack bar prices are high
Outside food not allowed, but I saw a counter employee eating food from outside yesterday.
No longer have Break the Bank
No longer have PIZZA frames
Equipment failures not repaired such as monitors at the scorer table
Equipment sensors to count pins are erratic on certain lanes
Ball damage on certain lanes
Roof leaks fail to get repaired in timely manner
Other entertainment is kid based ticket machines
No pinball or pool tables
No cell service inside building, No WIFI offered by center

There are probably other things but considering all other options it is where I prefer to bowl for leagues at the present time.
_________________________
current average 209
HG 300,
HS 811
https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/

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#199047 - 02/11/18 04:26 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: 82Boat69]
wronghander Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 581
A/S/L: 33/M/NH
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
When did consistency become a requirement? The whole point of competition is to see which player(s) make the best adjustments. How interesting would golf be if the players simply played the same hole over and over?

IMO it became a requirement when the game became about equipment and ball reaction. Having the right ball in your hand for the condition you're bowling on gives you a pretty big advantage in this game. I (along with others) base our equipment choices around what the shot is expected to be, so when it's different sure we can adjust but then it comes down to carry. I think a good golf analogy for this would be expecting to play on a par 3 course and then finding out it's a standard course, but you left your driver at home expecting not to need it.

Quote:

The number 1 reason bowling is a failing business, its become so simple because of high-tech balls and typical house 'slots' that nobody needs to practice. Inflated averages help no one.

I love to watch wannabes averaging 220 come up against a tough shot and suddenly start shooting 160's because their ball doesn't hook as 'expected' and they can't pick up the pins they leave.

I agree with you mostly here, but I think on sport shots the ball selection is important as well cause you need something that will give you a chance to get to the pocket if you make a good shot. But yes, spare shooting becomes more important and is often the difference in people averaging 160 instead of 180. I'd love to have more opportunities to bowl on sport shots around here. My local Brunswick Zone does do a summer league on a challenge shot, but it's unsanctioned with no prize money and very few participants. At the end we were down to 8 bowlers I believe, not sure they will run it again this summer.


Edited by wronghander (02/11/18 04:42 PM)
_________________________
High Game: 300 (5)
High Series: 803

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#199049 - 02/11/18 09:39 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: wronghander]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 662
A/S/L: 70/M/California
A few weeks ago, a pump on our lane machine failed. Our lane person was only checking every 4 pairs to make sure the machine was working. The last 6 lanes were flooded. It was too late to break out the back-up, so we were forced to shoot on unlimited oil for 40 feet.

Talk about a 'sport' shot. This is a trios scratch league where we shoot 4 games. For 3 of those games, a 175 or better was a winner. In game 4, it took at least a 200.

The whine from those 6 lanes was loud, but the people who were good spare shooters were licking their chops. Getting a double was special again :-)

We can't blame the ball manufacturers or the house. We the people, who have become dependent on high tech equipment and 'slot-shots' are to blame for the condition of the sport these days.

When we take responsibility for that, when we can bowl on a difficult condition and not complain, the integrity of the game will return and possibly survive.

On its current trajectory of high-tech equipment, slotted patterns and the expectation of consistency, the game is doomed. Back in the 60's, only about 600 perfecto's were shot each years with millions trying. Just 20 years later, 30,000 plus were shot each year. Today, its even worse.

Today, we all shoot in exactly the same place and then complain about those who dare use a different ball and hose up our shot :-) We need to get back to where those who practiced and made better adjustments averaged the highest. Not those who have the highest equipment budget or the loudest complaint.

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#199050 - 02/12/18 05:07 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9774
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I echo your comments, Boat.

The battle between oil patterns and asymmetrical cores caused this whole mess. the proprietors saw that higher scores made for happier bowlers on a shorter pattern. And, the ball companies countered with different core designs and covers. Oil changed and balls changed again as well. And, it hasn't stopped.

the lone sufferer was the good bowler, as he was no longer a product of practice and training. It was the new ball purchased, not the practice he did. Today, any bowler will shoot 200 with the right equipment. And, those who don't, quit.

Numbers are down across the country, from league heads to USBC membership. It's dying, slowly.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#199051 - 02/12/18 05:16 PM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9774
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Boss, I noticed your Plusses were bowling related, and the Negatives were other perk types. be happy that the bowling plus is still there. When they start to go, it's over.

Our league was fed up with lanes being shut down for weeks for maintenance. Inconsistent oil patterns. Dirt on the lanes from last night. Hand blowers that don't work. Scorers that don't pick up the right pin count.

Brunswick had a complete Division of programmers, and system people. As they sold this stuff to private houses as well, and maintained it all. To my knowledge, that division was not in the buy out. So, there is no in house training or fixing any longer.

and, when your lane man can't understand the manual to fix something, you are SOL. As happened to us. We still don't have a laneman. Been a year now. Its common when a machine goes down, they just move the bowlers and the lanes stay idle.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#199052 - 02/13/18 03:09 AM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 662
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Ball manufacturers and proprietors love it, but that love is blind. It will be a torrid but short affair :-)

Actually, Bowlmor may be right in their approach, although they may be attempting it on too large of scale.

Here's the future of bowling;

https://missionbowlingclub.com/

One lane for 1 hour runs $38.

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#199053 - 02/13/18 07:32 AM Re: My Senior League wants to change Houses [Re: 82Boat69]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 823
A/S/L: 38/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
Here's the future of bowling;

https://missionbowlingclub.com/

One lane for 1 hour runs $38.


This is why I feel that bowling has a double bad image problem. Within the bowling community, there is a lot of negativity causing people to leave over where we have ended up with lane conditions, equipment, and/or USBC issues. Outside of the community of bowlers, it is nothing more than recreation for when you hang out with friends and is not respected. I was setting up my DVR to record the TOC and I was shocked to see ESPN run a commercial for the televised finals during SportsCenter. I doubt that very many non-bowlers saw that commercial and said "I want to watch that later today." I have a co-worker who believes that bowling is not a serious sport because you can drink beer and eat food while you participate.

IMO, bowling is currently the Rodney Dangerfield of sports.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-790

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