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#198699 - 12/19/17 10:43 AM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: BOSStull]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 572
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I had a Black Hammer and an LT-48. I sold the LT-48 a few years ago and finally tossed the black Hammer. I could get the Hammer to move, but not carry unless the conditions were 'very' dry or I was on wood lanes.

I have a friend who's a 'no-thumber' who buys the latest and greatest urethane equipment. Our hands are similar so I get to check out everything when we practice together. I've tried the Pitch black, Pitch Blue, Blue Hammer, Natural and Super Natural. I'm waiting for him to pick up a Hot Cell, but he doesn't like anything that hooks a lot. I may have to wait :-)

I keep looking, but think weak resin is better than urethane. By using narrow drilling angles and wider VAL angles, I can simulate what urethane does without losing hitting power.

Now, if I had 450 RPM's........................ hmmmm.

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#198700 - 12/19/17 01:06 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: BOSStull]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 284
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
Originally Posted By: BOSStull
Originally Posted By: Dylan585
. hmmmmm... Maybe you just need to know how to adjust when somebodies throwing urethane?
Don't know if the you was directed at me but I will respond anyway. I adjust to what my ball is doing although I do take into account what everyone else is throwing and where. If it looks like carry down may be the culprit I will switch to one of my particle balls either the Yeah Baby or New Standard which ever one is in the bag at the time.

Not directed at you at all! I just saw something about urethane and ruining shots... It really irks me when people complain about the urethane
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#198702 - 12/19/17 01:27 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: Dylan585]
IronMike Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 34
A/S/L: 28/M/North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Dylan585

Not directed at you at all! I just saw something about urethane and ruining shots... It really irks me when people complain about the urethane


I do not own a urethane ball. However, it irks me as well when people complain about any aspect like this.

Bowling is a competitive sport...I'm not out here trying to help my opponent throw his best possible game. If throwing urethane gives me a better shot -and- hurts my opponent's shot, I call that a 'win-win'.
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#198703 - 12/19/17 01:40 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: Dylan585]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 572
A/S/L: 70/M/California
The secret to bowling on any oil pattern is to avoid the pattern unless that pattern provides more pros than cons. On a typical house shot, I like to stand left just enough to accumulate a little oil on the way out. Just that extra amount allows strong balls to get a little further down lane before recovering. It's why crankers are always moving left looking for oil that is quickly disappearing.

If people are looking for oil that will help them get farther down lane, why would they fear 'carry-down'? The contention that urethane ruins an oil pattern or that 'carry-down' is a problem for reactive resin, may be more myth than fact.

I've just spent 30 minutes looking for an article with some evidence of urethane ruining oil patterns but only found anecdotal comments. Can anyone point me to an article where urethane and oil patterns are discussed? I've heard Randy Pederson say it can impact another's line, but I can't find any technical evidence to prove it.

In fact, I would think with 9 out of 10 throwing reactive resin, the impact in leagues would be just the opposite. Reactive balls would make most patterns useless for urethane unless a person has serious rev's. Wood lanes would be different, but on formica, urethane simply deflects too much.

I bowl in a league where 65 out of 66 use reactive resin. Only one person who throws with no thumb uses urethane. While this is just another anecdotal comment, there must be a reason for such a huge disparity.

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#198704 - 12/19/17 02:11 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: 82Boat69]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 756
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
The contention that urethane ruins an oil pattern or that 'carry-down' is a problem for reactive resin, may be more myth than fact.

The reason that carry down causes issues for "Reactive Resin" is because reactive resin balls depend on dry back ends for their reaction.
They are designed to skid through oil and then grip the dry quickly and react suddenly, releasing all that energy and that is why they carry better than any other ball type.
Now if you wet that back end with oil due to carry down, that reactive reaction becomes weaker and weaker until that ball loses all its pop.

As to carry down and urethane, only non-flaring urethane produces carry down.
My Black Widow Urethane produces huge flare and takes oil off the lane like a reactive ball.
My Grizz urethane with no core and no flare does create carry down with its single oil stripe that it rolls over again and again.

Please watch this video tech talk on urethane. It is really very, very good and explains all this and more:

David O'Sullivan: Peak Performance Pro Shop- Tech Talk Urethane Bowling Balls
https://www.facebook.com/david.osullivan.585/videos/10101574004071661/
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High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

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Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

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#198705 - 12/19/17 02:19 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: 82Boat69]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 284
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
Ive found that its much easier to ruin somebodies line with a super strong urethane ball sanded to either 360 or 500... Not that ive ever done that wink
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#198706 - 12/19/17 02:24 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: Dylan585]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 572
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Not to be argumentative, but I would love to follow you in league. What you call ruining a shot is just what I look for. Not that I ever do that :-)

I understand the logic that people use when discussing urethane. I've just never experienced it in league and don't see anyone whining on the PBA about urethane carry down.

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#198707 - 12/19/17 02:33 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 572
A/S/L: 70/M/California
If the carry-down was 60 feet I would concede the point, but even Svensson doesn't do that. Urethane is a niche that works for some people in some venues on some patterns. On formica, except for those with high rev-rates, urethane simply deflects too often. As I said in an earlier comment, I have a no-thumber for a friend who throws urethane and I can bowl the same line as him, and my ball will do more damage to the pattern at 325 RPM's as his does at 400+.

I don't use Facebook. Can you find that video on the internet and provide the URL?

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#198708 - 12/19/17 04:20 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: 82Boat69]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 756
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
On formica, except for those with high rev-rates, urethane simply deflects too often.

In the video I posted earlier, I am using the Black Widow Urethane on the slickest lane surface made, Brunswick Pro Anvilane with a flood of oil on the Big Ben pattern.
The Widow is super saturated, yet it does not deflect, it grabs and rolls a ton. I don't have high revs, only 150 rpms.
The Widow is that strong.

Watch again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqArAVIvtx0

Also I am getting a ton of flare with this ball despite being a low rev full roller.
Check out the pic I took last night in league.


Attachments
Widow Flare.JPG


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

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#198709 - 12/19/17 04:29 PM Re: Hammer "Black Widow Urethane" [Re: nord]
mmalsed Online   content
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1367
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
oh, they can ruin "a shot" and force others of us to change.

The problem I have with crankers with eurethane is that they ruin my shot in three ways:

1. they scoot the oil out early in my shot as they cross my line going from left to right as I go straight. This often causes my ball to interrupt its skid early. You can see it jump a bit and it disrupts it's skid.

2. They change my break point as they come from right to left. I'm not always ready to have MY ball break when theirs has already made its move and charged across. Now my ball is disrupted twice.

3. They move oil farther down the lane. I'm already fighting long lanes, now they're longer?


Now - this said, it forces me to adjust. My problem is that I haven't found a way to make a solid adjustment to this yet. I'm not comfortable playing the twig (the only way to get far enough outside my crankers) and I don't have anywhere near enough hand to play inside them.

Best way I've been able to make it work is to take nearly ALL hand out of it, and toss it straight down 15 with a little hook action at the very end. Not satisfactory, not fun, but I can at least score.



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