BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#198767 - 12/26/17 02:10 PM Dual Angle Layouts
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 540
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
It appears since coming back to bowling in 2014, none of the 3 drillers I've used do dual angle layouts. Basically, all they've done is take my measurements and laid out basic patterns that they believe will work for me.

Should I seek someone new who does dual angle layouts or does it not matter that much. Thoughts?
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs C300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs C300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Brunswick BTU Pearl
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#198768 - 12/26/17 02:31 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 537
A/S/L: 70/M/California
If you know what angles you want and how dual angles are laid out, just tell your PSO what you want and explain how it's done. Or, borrow his Pro-Sec and lay it out yourself and just have him drill the holes.

If he only knows PSA drilling, then there are formulas on the internet that convert dual angle values to PSA values and vice-versa.

If you expect help picking the best dual angles from a person who doesn't use them, then you'll need to find another PSO.

Something to keep in mind; You can't change the character of a ball by drilling it. The surface represents 80% or more of a ball's motion. If you drill a ball with a wide drilling angle, it will still only skid as far as the surface and your ball speed will allow. The same applies to a VAL angle. If you don't have very much hand in your delivery, drilling a narrow VAL angle will not cause a sharper break. It will simply roll out.

There are dozens of articles on the internet that propose dual angles for different delivery types. If you post what you know about your release and delivery here, others and myself will be glad to help you choose layouts and explain why each value was chosen.

Top
#198769 - 12/26/17 11:44 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 540
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
That is a big weakness for me, understanding the technicalities of bowling. I know I prefer a smooth arc over flippy reaction but due to my lack of speed, sanded balls work against me. Logically, sanded balls allows balls to read early and not store up flip energy. Not for me, sanded balls grab early and expend all their energies by the time they hit the pins. Consequently, I have to polish my balls to get them further down the lanes but in doing so, they over react on the backends.
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs C300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs C300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Brunswick BTU Pearl
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

Top
#198770 - 12/27/17 01:36 AM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 537
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Do you know what a PAP (positive axis point) is? If not, you need to have your PSO find it for you. If he doesn't know how, I can give you an explanation of what it is and instructions for finding it on your own. Without knowing your PAP, PSA and 'Dual Angle' drilling techniques are meaningless.

If your PSO doesn't know your PAP and hasn't watched you bowl, they will just be guessing when they drill your ball. Guessing is a quick way to waste $229.95 :-)

Do you have any idea of what your ball speed is? Axis tilt? Axis rotation? RPM's?

If not, there are instructions for each on the internet. Armed with this information, you can drill a ball that will react appropriately on the oil pattern where you bowl.

Once you have a base drilling, you can make modifications to help you develop a arsenal of balls for every occasion.

Top
#198775 - 12/28/17 01:01 AM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 540
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
That is one of the problems, none of the drillers I've gone to have determined my PAP. A friend recommended his driller who does dual-angle layouts. He would have to calculate my PAP I'd imagine.

He is a bit of a distance away, hence my question if it's worth switching.
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs C300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs C300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Brunswick BTU Pearl
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

Top
#198776 - 12/28/17 03:53 AM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 537
A/S/L: 70/M/California
I would definitely visit that person.

Many PSO's don't take the time to find out anything about the bowlers they're drilling balls for. As a result, they do a disservice to their customers and waste their customer's money.

Finding a bowler's PAP is the first step to learning all the variables necessary to drill a modern bowling ball. Ball speed, axis tilt and axis rotation are other variables that will fill in the blanks. RPM's are the final piece. These variables can all be determined once a PAP has been determined. The PSO only needs a cell-phone or camera and a few minutes of their time.

Even knowing all these variables, choosing the best dual angles will require some experimentation. This is because the same dual angles on different bowling balls will give different results. Additionally, dual angles for asymmetric balls are different than those for symmetric balls.

I'd post a good explanation, but most websites are banned by bowling community and don't show up correctly. You can find them easily on the internet.

I always like to start with 50 x 5 x 50 then adjust. I usually use an old ball that I'm familiar with.

I wouldn't buy a new ball until you've found the best angles for your delivery.

Top
#198777 - 12/28/17 12:59 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 540
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
I actually have the perfect new ball, a black Friday special I picked up for $29.99. No need to plug and drill. :-)
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs C300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs C300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Brunswick BTU Pearl
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

Top
#198778 - 12/28/17 01:25 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 537
A/S/L: 70/M/California
What brand and model?

Top
#198779 - 12/28/17 02:37 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 540
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
Radical Rack Attack Pearl, 15lbs
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs C300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs C300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Brunswick BTU Pearl
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

Top
#198780 - 12/28/17 04:48 PM Re: Dual Angle Layouts [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 537
A/S/L: 70/M/California
Any estimates on your ball speed, RPM's axis tilt and axis rotation?

Own a cell-phone? Have a friend create a video of your release and ball going down the lane. Post it here.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Fall/Winter Leagues 2017-18 thread
by Richie V. - Yesterday at 09:02 PM
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
by Dylan585 - Yesterday at 04:09 PM
Brunswick Anvilane - Hook power
by djp1080 - Yesterday at 01:48 PM
Where is every one?
by djp1080 - 01/20/18 04:07 PM
Motiv Venom Shock Pearl
by Jason_C - 01/18/18 10:51 AM
Competing against high rev, high speed players
by BowlerBill - 01/17/18 07:59 PM
Honor Scores Not Received By USBC
by Mkirchie - 01/10/18 02:34 PM
Dual Angle Layouts
by Dennis Michael - 01/10/18 10:26 AM
Roto-Grip Hyper Cell Fused Video Ball Review
by mmalsed - 01/08/18 11:41 AM
Dare Devil Danger Video Ball Review
by sk8shorty01 - 01/07/18 08:56 PM
Good advice from my brother!
by Dylan585 - 01/05/18 04:13 PM
"Knocking the Shine" off of my Pearl Ball
by 6_ball_man - 01/01/18 09:11 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.