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#198479 - 11/12/17 07:03 PM Back-up Bowling
Lynn Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 07/12/17
Posts: 2
A/S/L: 15/F/Iowa
I'm not a beginner to bowling, but I need a few tips on how to break my back-up bowling habits. I'm a female, and have been throwing back-up for a few years, so throwing this way is a bit more natural for me, my coach and I have tried so many ways to switch the way I throw and nothing has worked so far. I've tried moving my hand to the right side of the ball when I line up and even tried a wrist brace and still come out throwing back-up. It'd be really great if you could drop tips for me to try.

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
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#198480 - 11/12/17 08:18 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: Lynn]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
The best way is to work backwards.

Move all the way to the right side of the lane as if you were going to throw your ball straight down the 5 board or at the first arrow.

Move your body all the way to the foul line and assume the classic finishing position. Left knee bent, Left arm out to the left, right leg behind and left. Your right arm should be hanging down to your right side.

Without a ball swing your right arm back and forth keeping your forearm facing toward the 5 board or first arrow. In this position your hand will be wide open and your thumb out to the right.

Here's a video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHEDiAfxUVo

Once you get use to this position, then pick up your ball and repeat. Swing the ball back and forth but don't let go. As you swing the ball, make sure it swings straight back and straight forward under your shoulder. You may need to drop your shoulder to accomplish it correctly. That's okay.

Once your comfortable doing this, let go of the ball. It's not important that you throw the ball, just swing and let go with your thumb at 11 o'clock.

By staying right, any tendency to backup the ball will be met with a channel shot.

After awhile, incorporate this into your normal approach. Keep shooting from the right corner. After 2 or 3 games, you should become pretty good and your backup should be gone.

As the ball goes forward, make sure your thumb is at 11 o'clock.

I Think you will find
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198487 - 11/13/17 02:45 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: Lynn]
Dylan585 Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/18/14
Posts: 241
A/S/L: 20/m/ny
I agree with what he said above... Trying to incorporate it into the full approach right off the bat is near impossible... Its muscle memory that you have to break... When I was young I did the same thing. I broke the habit by standing at the line and basically pointing my thumb at the ceiling and swinging my arm like that. After doing that for a bit then pick up the ball and keep your hand in the same position but release... Once you can do this regularly on the approach you can start actually getting a good release. Learning this way wont teach you how to throw it right but it will break you of the back up ball habit. Once you can throw the ball and keep your palm open (Towards the left gutter) Then you can work on getting under the ball. This is how I remember learning to stop throwing a back up ball. I mean if that doesn't work 2 handed is always an option rotfl
_________________________
2 handed stats:

High game: 257
High series: 710
Average: 191

Bag: storm supernatural, Genesis the judge, motiv paranoia, motiv Forza gt, motiv Arctic sniper

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#198495 - 11/14/17 12:14 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: Lynn]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1335
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: Lynn
I'm not a beginner to bowling, but I need a few tips on how to break my back-up bowling habits. I'm a female, and have been throwing back-up for a few years, so throwing this way is a bit more natural for me, my coach and I have tried so many ways to switch the way I throw and nothing has worked so far. I've tried moving my hand to the right side of the ball when I line up and even tried a wrist brace and still come out throwing back-up. It'd be really great if you could drop tips for me to try.


There is another option. Keep throwing back-up. (GASP!!! HERESY!!!)

I know, I know, it's not "proper" - honestly, who cares. I know quite a few women who get as much hook, going backup, as most of us guys get throwing "normal" (whatever the crap that means).

Physiologically, men's and women's arms can be different. (GASP again!) - turn your right thumb all the way "outside" - you will likely be able to go farther "out" than I will. My wife gets like an additional 15-20 degrees than I can. If so, you will likely be more comfortable with bowling backup.

Second, bowling is supposed to be FUN. If you have to change everything about your swing, it's probably not going to be much fun, will it?

But here's the deal with back-up bowling - it's different. Your ball needs to be drilled as though you're a lefty. Literally, I've seen my wife throw her ball when it was drilled righty - and it fought itself going down the lane. Her rotation would pull to the right, the ball would try to flip back left. It was actually funny. I took one of them and had it drilled back-up/lefty and it actually moved properly. So talk with your pro-shop guy. Make sure they're drilled properly.

Also - make sure to go fingertip. Back-up with conventional drillings (full finger) are NOT comfortable. Fingertip will get you even a more dramatic improvement for back-up than for regular!


Now the actual big part. Throw out about half of the crap that we talk about for conventional delivery. Yes, you need your steps correct. Yes, you want a straight swing. But within and after that, things go differently.

You want to study your own swing. I say you want to "turn the doorknob" at the delivery; my wife says she needs to say "loser" to the pins (you know, the thumb and forefinger "L" . . ." but with her palm toward herself) - whatever fits in your brain, you need to deliver the ball with that clockwise turn at the END.

Also - DO NOT SPREAD your first and pinky fingers. With conventional, you typically want to keep your pinky in and your forefinger out - it's the other way with back-up. If you let your forefinger out, it will deaden the spin of the ball. Your pinky, though, should spread out a bit.


Backup can be FUN. My wife does it and enjoys bowling. If your physiology just seems to not ever click with conventional, stop fighting it and bowl backup. You may need to get a new coach, but that's fine. Your coach should coach YOU, not force you into some mold. smile


I REALLY hope this helps!
_________________________
Avg: 200
Season High Gm: 276 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 714 / Lifetime: 759

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#198501 - 11/14/17 01:46 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: Lynn]
steveA Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 562
A/S/L: 57/male/newcastle:uk
mmalsed There is another option. Keep throwing back-up. (GASP!!! HERESY!!!) Total heresy.

And I couldn't agree with you more, bowling is about having fun.
Doing it well is about consistency and repeat-ability , go with what suits you , not what everyone else thinks you should do, then tweak as needed such as drilling for your style.
_________________________
PB
High game 257
series 704



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#198502 - 11/14/17 02:35 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: steveA]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Can a person really roll their hand in the opposite direction that nature intended consistently?

Not to be argumentative, but in the 50+ years I've been doing this, I've never seen it. I've also never seen anyone averaging much over 170 with a backup.

There are exceptions, but I'm not sure suggesting a person try to be that exception is solid advice.

If a person is happy averaging 150, by all means, they should just have fun. But, a person who has taken the time to ask for help, would be best served with receiving suggestions that actually might help.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198503 - 11/14/17 03:16 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 366
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
I'm not here to spoil your day, but I've watched twin high school girls in practice for a little bit with their team. The coach is a fellow who has coached them for quite some time and he's a darn good bowler himself.
The father of the girls used to bowl in our men's league until he got some physical problems knocking him out.
Both girls throw righty and one throws a backup ball. She had a better average than the one who throws a hook and both were 200+ bowlers... I recall their dad mentioning to me that his daughters won one of their regional tournaments in doubles... smile

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#198505 - 11/14/17 06:49 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
You won't spoil my day, because I don't need your help. Lynn on the other hand is trying to break a bad habit, and recommending she continue backing the ball up isn't helpful and might even be harmful.

As for your story;

an·ec·do·tal
ˌanəkˈdōdl/Submit
adjective
(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198506 - 11/14/17 08:33 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 366
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Well Boat, Your recommendation about lining up on the right side of the lane, etc., is an excellent start in my opinion.
Who's recommending that she continue backing up the ball?
I do recall seeing a video of a PBA tournament where Bob Learn left the 2-8-10 split. He got up on the lane very calmly towards the left side of the lane and threw a backup ball into the left side of the 2-pin and drove it into the 10 while the ball took out the 8-pin handily. It was an impressive spare shot and looked like he'd had plenty of practice doing that kind of thing.
Also, Joe Slowinski (USBC Gold coach) demonstrates plenty of drills to improve bowlers and to correct mistakes in many ways. One of them is his backup drill. From what I recall it's one that can help a bowler get their hand into a better position for the modern release and keep their ball closer to their ankle at the release point. He then mentions that this technique could be used to pick up spares like a 2-8-10 or even other spares like the 6 or 10-pin. Never does he recommend it as a way to attack a full rack of pins though.
Hope you're having a great day out there in California...

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#198507 - 11/14/17 09:26 PM Re: Back-up Bowling [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
There's a youtube of Belmo throwing a backup. His backup is almost as good as his normal delivery.

For anyone trying to change muscle memory, it's going to be a haul trying to learn to do it different. They'll need to put in the time and guard against doing what they've always done before.

I remember switching from full roller to 3/4. It took me 6 months. I thumped the ball for 4 of those 6 months :-)

I also started out throwing a backup ball. I switched early, but think I threw a full roller because it took so long to learn to throw the ball correctly.

If I can save someone else the trouble, I'll try.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

Top
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