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#198163 - 09/18/17 02:51 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 702
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

I would say I am a perfect example of a player with slow speed and a weak release.
150 rpms
12mph off my hand.

The main problem I have on house shots with virtually any ball is that I cannot play up second arrow with any consistency.
If I miss right even half a board the ball will go through the nose.
But If I miss inside the ball usually does not hook much and will hit weakly.
Even with very weak balls, unless there is a ton of oil, I cannot consistently get the ball to hold the track playing a down and in 10-10 shot.

Recently I have started using the strongest ball I have and moving in (right foot on 17-18) and playing over 12 or 13 out to 10 and back.
I am keeping the ball in the oil the whole time.
This increases my entry angle and margin for error and helps me stay away from flat 10s.

I am using my Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane ball at 320 grit and it arcs very smoothly on this line and has no trouble rolling back and carrying or leaving something makable.
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High Series: 621
House Avg: 177

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#198164 - 09/18/17 03:26 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 498
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Even if you throw your ball slow, it will still pass through the 3 phases of ball motion. Skid, hook and roll.

In your mind, try to see those 3 phases as separate segments of the lane, each with it's own length.

If you use an aggressive surface, your skid phase may be relatively normal, but with a slow ball speed, your hook phase will be quite short, followed by a longer than normal roll phase as friction overpowers your RPM's.

Visually, you'll see your ball skid fairly straight, make a sudden move left and then begin to roll. Any error, left, right or in your speed, can cause problems.

So, with your ball selection, you need to choose a ball that will give you a normal skid, a longer hook phase, and a shorter roll phase.

What I'm going to tell you may seem harsh, but it's an honest assessment. Based on where you are in your game, you need to concentrate on spares, not strikes.

You will get strikes, but never enough to make that a major consideration in ball selection. I would stay away from balls with an aggressive surface. I would also stay away from urethane.

I recommend you go with a plastic ball that has a weight block. Plastic will give you a longer skid phase, a longer hook phase and a shorter roll phase. You may even carry more hits, but don't expect that.

What you will be able to do is control the pocket a little better and only leave yourself with single pin or easier pin combinations, which you can then pick up.

As you become a better spare shooter, your average will tick upwards. Unless you can increase speed and RPM's, striking more will be difficult.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
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#198166 - 09/18/17 03:38 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 346
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Your thoughts here make sense.
We had an older guy on our team a couple years ago (older than me anyway) and you could see his ball go through the transitions as his ball speed continued to decrease over the years. The hook phase began to be way too short from my perspective and the roll phase seems to be too long. His typical 190 to 200 average began to drop and he eventually quit bowling.
What was sad was that he was usually the first guy at the bowling center every Wednesday night looking forward to bowl. Hope he's okay...

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#198167 - 09/18/17 03:59 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 498
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Bowling is all about making adjustment to the conditions. A person's age and abilities are part of those conditions. One of the hardest adjustments all bowlers will be faced with, is their expectation of what they want from the game.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198168 - 09/18/17 04:12 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9549
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
RIGHT GUYS.

And, I find my dilemma to center around my knee operations and slower walking. The hard part is knowing what my speed could be and had been, and NOT using my arm to get it.

It results in taking a longer slide and fully extend my arm at release. this gets more of the skid.

Odd thing, no matter how long my slide is, I'm still 2 feet from the foul line. I move up and it doesn't matter. It's my first step that is short. 1st of 5.
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#198169 - 09/18/17 06:23 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 498
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Within, what your body can deal with, try the following cadence to establish your timing.

For a 5 step, try slow, slow, quicker, quicker, quickest. If you push-away after the first step or simply unhinged on the second step, it should seem as your ball passes your right leg going back, you will be walking away from your back-swing in the opposite direction.

The result is you will finish your slide and your ball will still be behind you. Here's where it get's tricky. You must wait for your ball to swing forward without any help from you.

Because you're already stopped, you become the fulcrum point of your arm swing. As the ball is reaching the bottom of your swing, this is where your thumb should exit. Only now can you accelerate your fingers through the end of your delivery.

Don't 'lift' with your fingers, instead allow your wrist to remain relaxed so that your fingers create a 'whip' like effect, with as little effort from you as possible.

From the time you come to the end of your slide, until the ball reaches the bottom, is only about a second of maybe 1.5 seconds based on back swing. Waiting for that ball to fall to the proper position is the hardest part.

If you try to assist your swing in any way, your torso will turn slightly left wiping out your body angle. Because of the turn of your torso, your shoulders will also close, your arm will begin to arc away from your swing path, your elbow will get too far outside and you either go around the ball or pull it across your target line.

Be patient, stay still and only apply the whip action from your wrist after your thumb exits the ball. What ever you add to your ball should not change the arc of your swing or the direction of your swing plane.

If you get an opportunity to watch any pros warming up, you will see they start by taking a single step or maybe 2, and allowing the ball to swing forward without any help. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.

Good Luck!
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198173 - 09/19/17 12:16 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1320
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Ok - a couple of thoughts:

First - Nord - I don't think you're really a good example of this ONLY because your style is such an outlier. Your style is so very full-roller and you have to find very very specific balls and drillings to work for you.

IF you were more conventional in delivery (and I'm NOT saying you should) then you would be a good example. So, this is not a knock on you or your delivery, just that you're not really a good example in this discussion. Essentially, your delivery is TOO strong, while your speed is low.

Second - bowling is a game of physics. If you can deliver weight and speed, you can knock things around. Deliver that weight with speed in the correct direction then you will get (mostly) predictable results.

The rotation we use is there to a: change direction (mostly) and b: impart (some) velocity (due to core physics) - but most of us don't really get enough rotation to do this. This is the realm of guys like Maximum Bob or Belmo. . .

So - if you lose ball speed, then you need to compensate. At some point, you will get below the optimal line where you don't have enough left to compensate and you WILL have to enact the old saying, "Strike for show, Spare for dough"

But until that point, you should be able to balance speed and direction, even with a fairly weak release) to get a decent number of strikes. My F-in-Law (84) rolls a solid ball. Not a lot of speed, not a lot of rotation (weak) and as long as he can be limber and roll the ball on the right line (LOL - accuracy? ) then he can and does string them. His main problem is that when we make an adjustment, he just drifts right back to where he started. . . ARGH! LOL

He's a great example, I think. He lost a LOT of speed after his last heart attack and has never had a lot of rotation.
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#198214 - 09/26/17 02:21 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: mmalsed]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 702
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: mmalsed
Ok - a couple of thoughts:
First - Nord - I don't think you're really a good example of this ONLY because your style is such an outlier. Your style is so very full-roller and you have to find very very specific balls and drillings to work for you.

IF you were more conventional in delivery (and I'm NOT saying you should) then you would be a good example. So, this is not a knock on you or your delivery, just that you're not really a good example in this discussion. Essentially, your delivery is TOO strong, while your speed is low.


I have never considered that I had a strong delivery simply because I am used to watching the pros on TV with their huge rev rate.
By comparison my rev rate is quite low. But tonight in league at Parkway Bowl I thought about what you said above.

Using my Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane ball at stock 320 grit I was forced to play third arrow out to 10 and back.
There simply was not enough oil for me to play any further right.
By comparison my partner could play 9 out to 6 and back with his Code Black with great success.
He is a semi-roller stroker with 15.5 mph speed and probably somewhere between 250-300 rpm rev rate.

So I had trouble keeping the ball from going high, while he was living in the dry.
This is the second week with the Scorcher that I have been forced in on the fresh.
In anticipation of next week I took my Scorcher up to 600 grit Scotch-Brite.
Hopefully this gets the Scorcher up the lane further before it reads and lets me move a bit right on the fresh and square up a little more.

I guess this must mean my delivery is strong since I can basically use urethane on a pretty heavy house shot, keeping the ball in the oil the whole way.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
House Avg: 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Visionary The Crow Urethane
Visionary The Judge Urethane
Brunswick Grizz Urethane

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