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#197677 - 06/14/17 11:24 AM Lane Machine Breakdowns
BowlerBill Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 416
A/S/L: 55/m/Ca
How often does the lane machine break down at the centers you bowl at and have you noticed a change to the scoring potential?

I've always been streaky. My scores are up and down. I used to attribute it to a subtle difference in how I'm bowling that night. Some nights I'm lights out, everything carries and everything strikes. On these nights, I see the ball getting through the heads cleanly and have great down lane ball reaction.

Other nights, I see the ball read early. I see weak 10's. Nothing seems to carry and the ball seems to labor getting to the pocket.

I always attributed it to something I'm doing.

A few weeks ago, both leagues I bowl in scores were way down. No one scored well. I happened to be at the center practicing and saw the mechanics and a couple of the center employees talking to a guy I didn't recognize. They were all standing around the lane machine.

I talked to one of them later and he said the machine rep had replaced a bunch of parts in the machine. It hadn't been working right.

The following week lane conditions were back where I expect them to be. 8 out of 9 games I bowled that week were over 200. (646, 677, 697)

This is the first time I have seen a connection between the oil pattern and my personal scoring in relation to the lane machine. I usually always take the responsibility when I don't score well.

Am I on the right track?

When the conditions seem off and I don't see the down lane ball reaction I expect to see, what is the best corrective action to take?

Thanks
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#197680 - 06/14/17 06:46 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: BowlerBill]
goobee Offline
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Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 483
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
Hi Bill. I can't speak to your point but similar to your experience we all saw a big drop in mid season. It turned the center fired the guy most knowledgeable on how to use the lane machine. Not good.
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#197681 - 06/14/17 07:02 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
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Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 485
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Years ago, there were no machines. The shot was only as good as the person laying it down was at walking backwards and at what speed. Back then, every lane was different.

Nobody complained, because everyone had to shoot on the the shot presented. There's no competitive advantage on a bad condition other than the skill of each bowler to adjust their game to the condition.

My question, are we now to the point where we 'think' we're guaranteed and average? I bowl on a 'slot'. I can't take my average anywhere else and do as well. All I have are bragging rights among my cronies.

I would rather have a tough shot than a predictable one. I think I can adjust better than my opponents. That also applies to much younger players who throw much stronger strikes. Take away the predictability of a programmed oil pattern and many less seasoned players would struggle. I would have most of them for lunch.

Would deep and wide sport patterns really expose us for who we really are?

Comments?
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#197684 - 06/15/17 10:57 AM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: BowlerBill]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9530
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Bowlers today, have been trained to bank off the dry. Not to bowl. And, certainly, not how to read the lanes.

They expect uniformity in oil coverage. Standards in ball performance. and homogenous bowling at every center.

The ball is to blame, or the lane conditions, or the drilling. It's never the bowler.

It we buy a ball with RG of 2.60 and Diff of .050, that snaps and moves 10 boards on the end, and we don't get it. It's never our release, timing, speed or revs that cause the difference.

The ongoing dispute between Ball designers and lane conditioning has led us here.

And, as fictitious averages climb, it is harder to reverse this trend.
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#197690 - 06/15/17 07:36 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: BowlerBill]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1068
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Our first lane machine break down in a long time occurred a couple of weeks ago and has created havoc among many bowlers accustomed to a specific THS shot.

Our THS has not been the same for 4 weeks. Week 1 of bowling was the normal house shot. The next week a noticeable change very dry with a lot of complaints from bowlers. Week 3 oiled with an older machine. Lane man said the other one broke last week. This time it was like a reverse blocks outside of 5 being out of bounds.. oops This week again oiled differently again. This time a noticeable visual difference. No longer the usual BOWLMOR 24" start of the oil but more like 6-8 in.I was asssured this time that this pattern is it until they start using a brand new machine in a couple of weeks. I have bowled near or above average each week so it was no big deal but it sure put my team mates in a FUNK. I wonder what it is going to be like in a couple weeks. I do hope they keep the stat of the oil at 6.
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#197695 - 06/16/17 10:10 AM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: BowlerBill]
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 264
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
lane machines have a mystique all their own

A quick Google search of lane machines reveled that there is NO standard when it comes to the lane machines.

I would compare the lane machine to the automotive industry.
All cars will get you to the grocery store,not all cars are the same.
All lane machines will oil the lane, not all lane machines are the same.

Since the introduction of the B90 oiling machine in the 1960s, Brunswick has been a leader.
The machine cleans, oils and buffs in a single pass.

You might think that's it, but there is so much more.

This is were the "Bells & Whistles" come into play.

Some lane machines use a line of spray heads to apply the oil, much like nozzles on a spray paint can, pumped out of a holding tank.
This gives a overall coverage, dependent on nozzle placement.

While others use a system much like an ink jet printer,using pre-loaded cartridges,separate tank for water and cleaning agents, 39 Accu-ject injectors provide individual board-by-board application.
"no zigzags or multi-component transfer systems to blur the results." (sales hype)

And while some do it in a single pass others are set up to use a spray forward and drag back multi-pass system and combinations of the the like.

Then you have the manual hand held, to the fully robotic models that go lane to lane on there own like a roomba vacuum.

And much like the automotive industry, the price is not something easily nailed down, I seen prices from 3k to over 20k.

So the point is the "THS" is nothing but typical and can never be unless a standard is adopted for the lane machine.
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#197697 - 06/16/17 10:19 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: goobee]
BowlerBill Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 416
A/S/L: 55/m/Ca
Originally Posted By: goobee
Hi Bill. I can't speak to your point but similar to your experience we all saw a big drop in mid season. It turned the center fired the guy most knowledgeable on how to use the lane machine. Not good.


We had the same thing happen at the bowling alley closest to where I live. He was fired simple because of money.
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Mission X, Shatter, RhinoPro, Virtual Gravity (polished), Disorder, White Dot
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HS 805 (250, 300, 255) (non-sanctioned)
746 (267, 257, 222) (sanctioned)

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#197698 - 06/16/17 10:48 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: 82Boat69]
BowlerBill Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 416
A/S/L: 55/m/Ca
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
Years ago, there were no machines. The shot was only as good as the person laying it down was at walking backwards and at what speed. Back then, every lane was different.

Nobody complained, because everyone had to shoot on the the shot presented. There's no competitive advantage on a bad condition other than the skill of each bowler to adjust their game to the condition.

My question, are we now to the point where we 'think' we're guaranteed and average? I bowl on a 'slot'. I can't take my average anywhere else and do as well. All I have are bragging rights among my cronies.

I would rather have a tough shot than a predictable one. I think I can adjust better than my opponents. That also applies to much younger players who throw much stronger strikes. Take away the predictability of a programmed oil pattern and many less seasoned players would struggle. I would have most of them for lunch.

Would deep and wide sport patterns really expose us for who we really are?

Comments?


Bowling centers won't be returning to the days of a mop dipped in oil. The change to automated lane oiling machines was a good change, just like the change to automatic scoring machines benefited everyone.

I want to see lane conditions where a bowler scores according to his/her skill level and how often they can throw their best shot. We all know that, in bowling, some bad shots become strikes and some good shots become splits or single pins left on the deck. We all accept that's part of the game.

I don't know of anyone who thinks they are guaranteed a certain average. I think all of us get used to a certain lane condition that fits the way we bowl. Some players can only play straight up, some only inside out, some can't throw the ball inside the 5 board. We all have our individual challenges.

I used to bowl at a center where I could hit the pocket on almost every shot. I'd miss once or trice a night. I'd also leave 15 10 pins. I worked my tail off to average 203 in that house. I practiced every week. I tried every ball I had. I bought a ball specifically for the shot they put out. The only people who could average 225 were the big crankers with lot's of speed and revs. I don't have that type of game and never will.

I moved to a center that has a shot with more free hook on the outside and some hold on the inside. Is it easier at this center? Yes it is. I have only bowled regularly for the past 5 years. I want the opportunity to get some honor scores before I'm too old to do so.

Tough patterns do provide some separation between bowlers with more skills and experience. I know a guy who averages 170 on the house shot but due to his style also averages 170 on sport patterns. He does real well in tournaments where they put out sport patterns. He has ton's of handicap because he has no drop in average.

the real point I was trying to make was the discovery that lane machine breakdowns probably occur much more than I thought they did and might have more to do with lane conditions than I could have imagined.
_________________________
Mission X, Shatter, RhinoPro, Virtual Gravity (polished), Disorder, White Dot
HG 300 (sanctioned),

HS 805 (250, 300, 255) (non-sanctioned)
746 (267, 257, 222) (sanctioned)

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#197699 - 06/16/17 10:59 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: BOSStull]
BowlerBill Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 416
A/S/L: 55/m/Ca
Originally Posted By: BOSStull
Our first lane machine break down in a long time occurred a couple of weeks ago and has created havoc among many bowlers accustomed to a specific THS shot.

Our THS has not been the same for 4 weeks. Week 1 of bowling was the normal house shot. The next week a noticeable change very dry with a lot of complaints from bowlers. Week 3 oiled with an older machine. Lane man said the other one broke last week. This time it was like a reverse blocks outside of 5 being out of bounds.. oops This week again oiled differently again. This time a noticeable visual difference. No longer the usual BOWLMOR 24" start of the oil but more like 6-8 in.I was asssured this time that this pattern is it until they start using a brand new machine in a couple of weeks. I have bowled near or above average each week so it was no big deal but it sure put my team mates in a FUNK. I wonder what it is going to be like in a couple weeks. I do hope they keep the stat of the oil at 6.


You are seeing the same thing I have experienced. We all have to expect that a machine will break down at some point.

I've been called 'Mr. Maintenance' a few times in my life. I prescribe to preventative maintenance. It seems like bowling centers prescribe to 'we'll fix it if and when it breaks' philosophy.

I used to bowl at the last center in my area that had wood lanes. They hooked like no tomorrow. Everyone was used to them. They finally changed to synthetic and the frustration level of the average bowler was very high. They didn't know what to do with this thing called oil and could not adjust to the changing conditions.

I guess we have to accept we won't know what to expect from week to week and go with the flow.
_________________________
Mission X, Shatter, RhinoPro, Virtual Gravity (polished), Disorder, White Dot
HG 300 (sanctioned),

HS 805 (250, 300, 255) (non-sanctioned)
746 (267, 257, 222) (sanctioned)

Top
#197700 - 06/16/17 11:07 PM Re: Lane Machine Breakdowns [Re: W9JAB]
BowlerBill Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 416
A/S/L: 55/m/Ca
Originally Posted By: W9JAB
lane machines have a mystique all their own

A quick Google search of lane machines reveled that there is NO standard when it comes to the lane machines.

I would compare the lane machine to the automotive industry.
All cars will get you to the grocery store,not all cars are the same.
All lane machines will oil the lane, not all lane machines are the same.

Since the introduction of the B90 oiling machine in the 1960s, Brunswick has been a leader.
The machine cleans, oils and buffs in a single pass.

You might think that's it, but there is so much more.

This is were the "Bells & Whistles" come into play.

Some lane machines use a line of spray heads to apply the oil, much like nozzles on a spray paint can, pumped out of a holding tank.
This gives a overall coverage, dependent on nozzle placement.

While others use a system much like an ink jet printer,using pre-loaded cartridges,separate tank for water and cleaning agents, 39 Accu-ject injectors provide individual board-by-board application.
"no zigzags or multi-component transfer systems to blur the results." (sales hype)

And while some do it in a single pass others are set up to use a spray forward and drag back multi-pass system and combinations of the the like.

Then you have the manual hand held, to the fully robotic models that go lane to lane on there own like a roomba vacuum.

And much like the automotive industry, the price is not something easily nailed down, I seen prices from 3k to over 20k.

So the point is the "THS" is nothing but typical and can never be unless a standard is adopted for the lane machine.




Isn't this the truth. My friend at the bowling alley said the Kegel machine is much simpler than the Brunswick machine they bought. the Brunswick machine has many more parts. More parts equals more potential things to break and need replacement. They had a small box with a lot of parts in it. I'm not sure if all of the parts were replaced or if that was a new supply of spare parts.

Like the rest of the technical and mechanical world, there will never be such a thing called standardization. Engineers would all be out of work if that happened.
_________________________
Mission X, Shatter, RhinoPro, Virtual Gravity (polished), Disorder, White Dot
HG 300 (sanctioned),

HS 805 (250, 300, 255) (non-sanctioned)
746 (267, 257, 222) (sanctioned)

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