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#198091 - 08/28/17 06:44 PM Slow speed and weak release - matching up...
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 364
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
There have been a number of posts relating to this type of thing and some have found a way around these issues, but I came across this article that I found interesting:
http://www.bowlingcoach.com/CEOct02.pdf

Might help some... Good luck!

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#198093 - 08/29/17 10:12 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Interesting. Written in layman's language and pretty easy to understand.

It does illustrate the physics behind modern day bowling. It's not just a rubber ball, drilled with the ball label centered. As my 1960 balls were drilled.

I still think my method of buying balls holds true. Just understand the RG and the Diff. The higher the RG, the longer the length of the slide. And, the lower the Diff, the more arc you achieve.

Find what suits you, and stay with it. Then, only the friction of the cover stock is your variable. You can get very different ball paths from Dull, to pearl covers, and 300 to 4000 grit finishes.

Thanks for the article.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#198096 - 08/29/17 10:45 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
If the studies the USBC has presented are to be believed, 90% of a ball's motion is controlled by the surface of the ball combined with the surface of the lanes.

Couple this with the physics formula that says more speed and more RPM's, as the ball encounters friction, gives it more hitting power and bowling is rendered down into some pretty simple values.

Our sport's nomenclature has expanded dramatically from the 50's and 60's, but to score has become simple.

Take any aggressive ball, wind it up and throw it hard. 17 MPH is better than 15. 20 is better than 17. 400 RPM's is better than 200 and 600 is better than 400. The rest of the minutia surrounding the game will only provide incremental increases in pin-carry and average.

It's no wonder so few can make a living from this game. I hope the ball manufacturers and USBC are paying attention. We are at the abyss and those of us at this end of the bell-curve don't have the numbers to keep it from going over the edge :-)
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#198097 - 08/29/17 12:33 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1329
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Not everyone can throw the ball hard and not everyone can put a lot of revs on it.

The article (what I was able to get started on before I had to run to put out a start-of-semester fire, LOL) talks about balance.

We have a number of 200+ bowlers in my league (which is a pretty good league - lots of true high-skill bowlers) and they span everything from the huge crankers (of which only one or two rank at the top) to the down and in with medium revs (of which quite a few are in the top) and a few who are slower and with medium revs.

ALL of these MATCH their revs and speed to the ball. It's like photography - you have the golden triangle (ISO, shutter speed, aperture) - one out of balance and you've lost the shot. The BEST bowlers match their game and ball to the lane. Their game is a match of revs, speed, and line.

Funny thing is, those who TRY to do big crank and big speed - they are nowhere near the top. The two real smooth natural ones, yes, but the ones who try to pull it off don't.

I'm not going to compare to the pros because of the lane conditions they use. ANY of them will dominate on house conditions - and they'll all play different games.

It's about balance and repeat-ability. Right now, I have a problem with all of that (my knee goes from fine to bad in 2 frames, and I never know which ones) but I am throwing three different lines at our lanes on Sunday evening and as long as my knee holds out, I can pull off decent 200s (263, 214 this week before my knee gave out) - I can balance my ball-speed, my medium revs (am actually taking revs OFF right now - easier on me - and my scores are going UP) and I can hold my line.


Point is - match the ball (surface for amount of hook, internals for shape of hook - which the USBC article did NOT touch on) to your game (ball speed, revs) and then roll the line that fits your game and you will score.
_________________________
Avg: 200
Season High Gm: 276 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 714 / Lifetime: 759

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#198102 - 08/29/17 06:37 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: Dennis Michael]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 364
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Dennis, Glad that you enjoyed the post. On his website there are several other articles listed which are pretty good reading. Don't know if the author is still around coaching, but he's got some decent articles there.
I like the idea of using a 2/1 move to the left, but he specifically mentions only taking it to 1/0.5 to the left. I'll have to try that tomorrow night. Trying to think about keeping track of half a board though might be too challenging for this old coot. smile

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#198103 - 08/30/17 07:42 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
mmalsed, this has been my trouble for the past couple of years. No speed.
Since my knee operations, I have lost speed and have trouble balancing. Two very important things.

So, I have resorted to ball changes, currently using a hybrid with success. And, release changes to reduce my revs to match with my speed.

I won't hit those weekly big games. But, maintaining consistency will keep scores respectable.

With speed being a key factor in today's bowling, the ball manufacturers have almost eliminated the older generation from contention. And, IMO, that's the last generation that grew up in this sport. The rest, grew up in the lane surface/ball development battles.


Edited by Dennis Michael (08/30/17 07:43 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#198104 - 08/30/17 08:40 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: Dennis Michael]
Mkirchie Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 700
A/S/L: 37/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
With speed being a key factor in today's bowling

With what we have learned in recent years about ball motion, I sort of feel that this was inevitable. Getting the ball to enter the roll phase a few feet before the pins while rolling at a large speed produces strikes most effectively. Rolling faster at pins equals more energy to be transferred from the ball to the pins. If we assume we have two ramps of different heights which we can use to roll a ball into the pins, we would naturally pick the taller ramp. The high rev/high speed game is basically trying to be as tall of a ramp as possible.

This need for speed at the roll phase has created the need for balls to transition quickly to enter the roll phase for bowlers who have a lot of speed due to the ball having less time before the pins to make the transition to the roll phase. Of course, this means that those bowlers must also have a high rev rate or it will never get to the roll phase, which goes back to the idea of matching up speed and revs.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-789

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#198105 - 08/30/17 09:03 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 364
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
I'm one of the lucky ones I guess.
My ball speed is still around 17 mph or so. Been working on keeping my backswing down for a long time and keeping the speed down. I'm beginning to see that I don't need much polish and that the Siaair pads are my friends along with Scotch Brite. If I can get the ball to begin to slow down about midway down the lane, I'll do pretty well.
After reading posts here a few years ago I invested in much better bowling shoes to make sure that my knees don't give out any too soon. Good investment...

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#198108 - 08/30/17 05:34 PM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: djp1080]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
IDK about the slow down part. Mo Pinel talks about managing the skid phase of the ball path. He recommends a longer skid before the hook/roll.

Only way I can do that is with speed.

Exiting the pattern with speed, carries the ball longer before the hook. Friction then enables the ball to hook in a snappy motion. Your hook shape will be determined by how much skid. And, your entry angle will be increased to as much as 9 degrees.

But, when I do that, it's 10 pins all nite.

We have range finder marks downlane at 45 feet. My breakpoint target is the 8 board there. 2 boards outside of the finder mark. That's rolling over 13 at arrows. If I'm right of that, I cross over. Hit the dry too soon and hook early.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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#198109 - 08/31/17 11:53 AM Re: Slow speed and weak release - matching up... [Re: Dennis Michael]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 364
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
First week of men's league last night. Stood at board 25 and eyes at board 10. 1st game 197. Started going high flush and thought I should move a little left. Ended up with a couple multiple pin spare shots and missed. Moved back to original start and played their all night, just shy of 600.
Kept my hand behind the ball and backswing was in check.
Used the solid Storm Torrent all night long, too, which was a surprise. Nice move on the backend. Only 5 or 6 10-pins, missed one. Breakpoint was right at board 8 like yours just outside the range marker (handy tool).
Pleased with the first night out. Hope I can keep this up... smile

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