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#197910 - 07/26/17 07:22 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: steveA]
nord Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 694
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: steveA
Nord
This may be controversial but do you really want to go to the alley every time and bowl 300 games. Yes I'd like to do it (at least once) but to do it game after game , where's the fun, that sense of getting the ball to do what you wanted to pick up that tricky spare . I'd bet the satisfaction is as high or higher if you had 5 splits converted then 5 strikes in a row. Yeah league is about beating the other guy/,team but that personal satisfaction is way up there too.

Oh, I don't mind losing when I bowl well and the other bowler bowls better. I am a very good sport and supportive of my opponents.
But this was an example of me struggling to even meet my average while the other team effortlessly killed it.

In fact they were all playing a poker game with each other and laughing it up.
They only get a card when they strike and trust me they were getting a lot of cards!
They basically ignored us. We, as a team were a non-entity to them.
They barely talked to us or noticed us. We could've been the "bye" for all they cared.
They were only competing against themselves for their poker game.

As to making spares.
Yes, I do try to stay clean, and when I do, that is an accomplishment to little old me.
Once I could not get any strikes because I was only using a plastic ball. So I made 16 consecutive spares.
I was sweating bullets. 16 frames in a row of only spares! I was exhausted after that...

Of course one day I would love to bowl a perfect game, the closest I have ever got was at Poway with my rubber ball getting the back 9 for a 259.

BTW, these high rev players never missed a non-split spare. They struck a ton and the rare times they left a single pin spare they always got it.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
Kearny House Avg: 177
Parkway House Avg. 177

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#197912 - 07/27/17 02:44 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Offline
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Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 694
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
So check out this first match with the young girls.

-See how if they miss slightly right it is a total no hook disaster?
-And if they are a little inside then it goes high for another disaster?
-See how basically these very strong reactive balls they are using are not hooking for them because these girls have such low revs and lower ball speed?
-See how virtually perfect their shots have to be to strike?
-How they have no margin for error?

This is exactly how it was for my teammates on the Big Ben pattern.
No hook at all and slight misses totally punished.

Now imagine if Belmo or Dom Barret suddenly walked onto the same lanes as these girls and threw the same exact balls.
They would be getting massive hook and blowing the rack out like it was nothing.

That was the difference I was trying to point out between my low rev team and the high rev team we were annihilated by.

The guys we played could basically hit anywhere on the pocket and it would strike. That is not an exaggeration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoK8HgUoG1k&feature=push-u&attr_tag=N9_2OZKTUd7_fVjP-6




Edited by nord (07/27/17 04:07 AM)
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
Kearny House Avg: 177
Parkway House Avg. 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher
Hammer Widow Spare
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#197914 - 07/27/17 11:21 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Yes, bowling against high power crankers causes the rest of us issues.

But it does NOT prove that reactive resin balls are designed to be thrown hard.

It DOES prove that we have to adjust around them.

It ALSO proves entry angle really does (DOES) matter. They can generate big entry angles (which has been shown to give a LOT more room to strike) while you have a very shallow entry angle which means you have very little "room" - YOU have to be extremely precise while they have room for error.



Sunday we went up against the second best team in the league. It's me (tweener), my wife (backup), another Mike (high rev, low precision) and his wife (suitcase, down 15 with little bit of hook at entry) and one vacant.

We. Destroyed. Them. (okay, third game came down to me marking and getting count) and we did it by hitting spares. None of us hits the handicap threshold (which is 220 shocked ) so hitting our spares pretty much guarantees that we'll get good totals, and we did. I'm PUSHING "Strike for show, spare for dough" - when a 150 bowler goes nearly clean and hits 175-185, a strike bowler is going to start complaining out the [censored]! (look at any forum. . .) - just for calculation's sake, that would be 238-248 with handicap, and we had both ladies do that. The strikers just couldn't keep up. All we guys had to do was to hold up. . .

Point is, "there are alternatives to fighting" (Obi Wan)
_________________________
Avg: 200
Season High Gm: 276 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 714 / Lifetime: 759

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#197918 - 07/27/17 05:01 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: mmalsed]
nord Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 694
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: mmalsed
Yes, bowling against high power crankers causes the rest of us issues.

But it does NOT prove that reactive resin balls are designed to be thrown hard.

It DOES prove that we have to adjust around them.

It ALSO proves entry angle really does (DOES) matter. They can generate big entry angles (which has been shown to give a LOT more room to strike) while you have a very shallow entry angle which means you have very little "room" - YOU have to be extremely precise while they have room for error.



Sunday we went up against the second best team in the league. It's me (tweener), my wife (backup), another Mike (high rev, low precision) and his wife (suitcase, down 15 with little bit of hook at entry) and one vacant.

We. Destroyed. Them. (okay, third game came down to me marking and getting count) and we did it by hitting spares. None of us hits the handicap threshold (which is 220 shocked ) so hitting our spares pretty much guarantees that we'll get good totals, and we did. I'm PUSHING "Strike for show, spare for dough" - when a 150 bowler goes nearly clean and hits 175-185, a strike bowler is going to start complaining out the [censored]! (look at any forum. . .) - just for calculation's sake, that would be 238-248 with handicap, and we had both ladies do that. The strikers just couldn't keep up. All we guys had to do was to hold up. . .
Point is, "there are alternatives to fighting" (Obi Wan)


Great post! And you are right, "Strikes for flash, spares for cash."
I guess the thing that is a little frustrating is the huge area these guys have. I mean HUGE.
Also it is frustrating that the way they throw the ball is the exact way that takes advantage of the modern technology of reactive balls.

I don't really benefit much from modern balls the way I throw it.
My Dark Legend Solid gives me the most hook and back-end break and the most area, but it does not really add up to much in the end. Same can be said for my teammates.
That is why I posted the link to these junior girls not getting their reactive balls to really do anything because they have such low revs and they both had almost 90 degree axis rotations which made their lack of roll even worse.

Maybe the ball designers can create a Low Rev Hook Monster.
A ball specially designed to be thrown with low revs that will hook like you threw it with high revs.
High rev players could never use it, but low rev players like me would love it.

But lesson learned, I am over my depression.
Tonight I bowl at Poway as a sub with my good old rubber ball at 4000 grit that I can put more speed and revs on and know it will hook like crazy on the Poway booming back ends!
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
Kearny House Avg: 177
Parkway House Avg. 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher
Hammer Widow Spare
Billy Hardwick Rubber Ball
Columbia Scout Reactive

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#197920 - 07/28/17 11:42 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
smile

I WISH I could get the big hook. I CAN, but only for a few frames and then my wrist starts complaining. I'm already dealing with my knee complaining, so one complaint at a time, right? LOL

Cheers!
_________________________
Avg: 200
Season High Gm: 276 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 714 / Lifetime: 759

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#197921 - 07/28/17 11:54 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9493
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
The Jury is out on that big hook. I don't see it as effective as the higher revs. Revs splash pins, not the hook.

Bowled with a big hooker, week ago Wed. A lefty who rode the gutter til about 50, then it made a radical turn. After his first 2 games of 160 and 140, he did shoot 280. But, no one remembers his first 2 games, only the final one.


Edited by Dennis Michael (07/28/17 11:55 AM)
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#197924 - 07/28/17 08:45 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 694
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

Bowled at Poway last night and actually tried a new ball, a reactive if you can believe it!

I picked up a discontinued Black Scout reactive, took it to 2000 grit and drilled it with the Ron Machniak Full Roller drilling for pancake weight block.
This layout allows this ball to get about 3 inches of flare.

I normally can only use my rubber ball on those dry lanes, but this ball was a lot of fun! It went real long then leaped left and hit very hard.

If I made a good shot I was rewarded every time. I felt like the high rev players that killed my team because even poor shots would carry.
It really seemed not fair though and kinda fake to be able to just throw it "over there" and know if would go right into the pocket.

No threading the needle, no need to back off the speed to get roll. Just free Willy and carry.
I averaged 192. Dumb. By comparison I could barely average 168 at Kearny trying my very, very hardest with my Midnight Scorcher particle urethane.

Oh, and here is the best part: My team got killed! And I had a ton of fun! I had fun because the other team was fun, interacted with us and I bowled well and was not fighting the lane. It was a great night.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
Kearny House Avg: 177
Parkway House Avg. 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher
Hammer Widow Spare
Billy Hardwick Rubber Ball
Columbia Scout Reactive

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#197926 - 07/29/17 04:14 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
steveA Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 553
A/S/L: 57/male/newcastle:uk
It might be worth having a look at the Global balls , the original wisdom was marketed for seniors with slower speeds and less revs. Not sure what replaced it in the latest releases
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High game 257
series 704



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#197929 - 07/29/17 11:43 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: steveA]
nord Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 694
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: steveA
It might be worth having a look at the Global balls , the original wisdom was marketed for seniors with slower speeds and less revs. Not sure what replaced it in the latest releases

Not sure the "Wisdom" would be the right choice as it might not be strong enough.
At the two houses I bowl league in now, both have a ton of oil and the main problem I have is even getting the ball to read the lane.
So I am most of the time forced to roll much slower than normal just to get the ball to grab before it hits the pins.
But the slower speed limits carry.
My Dark Legend is the only ball I have ever used on these lanes that lets my get my speed up and still have the ball hook.
I also can get my Midnight Scorcher to hook up at normal speed if I keep the grit down around 800 or 600.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
Kearny House Avg: 177
Parkway House Avg. 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher
Hammer Widow Spare
Billy Hardwick Rubber Ball
Columbia Scout Reactive

Top
#197997 - 08/10/17 02:17 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9493
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Nord, I finally got a chance to use my redrilled Hammer Urethane in league. Not too bad, to start. Had 210 first game.

Then, I didn't get as many strikes in game 2, leaving multi pin spares. And, proceeded to chop them. Rolled past the 3 on a 3-6-10. Took 3 out of a bucket. Never hooked on a 4-7. Missed a 3-10 to the right. Not very good.

I found the ball was erratic going cross lane or rolling thru the center oil. One time it hooked, another it didn't. It needed to stay in the dry to get any reaction.
Maybe I slowed a little, as it checked up early. If I gave it room, it never came back. my speed was between 12.5 and 13.6. Odd, that spares are faster.

a 136 forced me to put it away.

Back to my reactive for a final 210 game. I did pick up 3 10-pins on the night. But, couldn't figure out the spare line to use for others.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




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