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#197632 - 06/08/17 09:27 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be thrown hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Absolutely!
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#197633 - 06/08/17 10:43 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be thrown hard! [Re: 82Boat69]
nord Online   content
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 713
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
There are a number of ball speed/rev-rate charts that show rev-rate increasing with speed. Although, not many show what happens for slower speeds. Still even for slower speeds, more is better. Simply put, more speed and more RPM's coming off the oil pattern makes everything else pale in comparison.

Bowlers love to talk about specific balls and because we're all different, ball companies make sure we all have one to coo over.

However, anyone who watches a few hundred ball reaction videos, sees the truth. Brands and models have nothing to do with it. It's all speed/RPM no matter what a person throws.

So, how a person generates more speed and more RPM's should be more important than whatever ball they buy or whatever small variations may exist between the internal numbers of un-drilled balls.

For my 2 cents, a relaxed arm-swing with a relaxed wrist will produce more speed and more RPM's with the least amount of effort, regardless of ball height at the push-away or at the top of the back-swing.
I have to agree with everything you have said and I am learning this the hard way, through my own failures and other bowlers successes.
As I mentioned earlier, this Monday at Parkway, where my ball would never read the lane, our opponent who had slow ball speed, but very high rev rate, bowled two 243 games.
His wife, who had very slow speed, simply rolled the ball end over end and she bowled above average, better than me.

I had slow ball speed too, but because my rotation rate was so slow and gradual, the reactive balls just skidded the whole way, while this couple got the ball the read through high revs and end over end roll.

Because of the way I release the ball (suitcase) and having a conventional grip, I cannot do the wrist thingy like the pros.
So how can I add more finger lift to get more/faster ball turn?
As I said before, at Poway, because there is so much friction built into the lanes, I can just ease the ball into the lane and it will transition perfectly and get great carry.
Of course I have to use rubber and polyester only.

Yet when I go to these normal house shots, the lanes are so super slick that even strong reactive will just skid if I ease the ball into the lane.
Only if I really come through the ball strongly will I get a back end reaction.

So friction wise, I seem caught in a bad place with my game.
On dry lanes I am fine, on wet lanes nothing reads unless I really hit up on it.

Where is a "Midnight Scorcher" when you need one?!


Attachments
scorcher-ball.png


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Dark Legend Solid
Hammer Widow Spare

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#197636 - 06/08/17 05:49 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be thrown hard! [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
I watched a WPBA event awhile back where the oil was long and deep. The women from Singapore were using balls sanded 180 then 360.

I decided to try it and sanded a Storm 'Lock' 180 then just took the edges off with 500. It works for me. The ball seems to read the entire lane earlier but never jumps.

I can only use it for about a game, but for long deep oil it works. You'll have to wipes your ball after each shot and clean it thoroughly right after you finish.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#197643 - 06/09/17 08:11 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Online   content
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 713
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

Last night I competed in Norquist and Vintage Cup competition at Poway bowl. I only took my Hardwick Rubber ball.
I took what you all said to heart and what I learned this week bowling with reactive on the normal house shots.

Make sure to throw fast and make sure to come through the ball with my fingers harder at the bottom to get the ball spinning more.

So more speed and more revs.

The result?

I won both trophies and bowled my all time high game as well as the most strikes in a row I have ever bowled.
I bowled a 259 and had the back 9! Then I had one more in the first frame of the next game for 10 in a row!
And all this by just throwing faster and coming through the ball harder. That's all I did. I did move forward faster too in my approach.

The Hardwick rubber ball, a simple cork filled ball that only weighs 14 lbs just killed the pins!
It hit way harder than any reactive I have ever thrown on normal lanes!
No core, no modern tech, no special grit finish. Just a simple rubber ball like they used in the 60s.

Everyone was amazed as was I! I also finished the three game series with a 618 too.

Attached is my score sheet for that game:


Attachments
JDBR0362.jpg


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Dark Legend Solid
Hammer Widow Spare

Top
#197644 - 06/09/17 08:56 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Very impressive! Good job!

A 4-5 with a rubber ball? Reminds me of when I was kid throwing a Manhattan Rubber Hooktrol-C :-)
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#197900 - 07/26/17 01:04 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Online   content
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 713
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

So last night the title of my post was proven to me in spades.

My team was bowling at Kearny Bowl on the Big Ben pattern on Brunswick Anvilane.
The players on my team could barely, if at all, get the ball to hook. Had to play very far right and take speed off.

Meanwhile we were playing the best team in the league.
They were all high speed high rev players. In age they were from late 30's and up and one of them was in his 70's.
One player was so high rev he had to use a Pitch Black urethane ball to keep it on the lane.

It was painful to bowl them and watch them. Everything was a strike or 9.
They did not even have to make a good shot. Anything that touched the pocket struck.
The 70 plus year old bowled a 277 and it was nothing to him or his team. This is normal for them.
One of the players has over thirty 300 games in this house. The rest were between 215 and 246. Their final scratch team series was 2684.

By comparison our final scratch series was 1862.

All of my teamates are low rev strokers and could not get the ball to read the lane. They all bowled under average.
I could get my ball to read, but I was rolling it too slow to control the reaction so I also bowled under average on all games.

Those players were high rev and threw it very fast, 18mph at the pin deck on average!
They threw 24mph at their 10 pins and one big guy winged it close to 30 at the ten pin.

By comparison I could not get my ball, at 10mph, to make it to the 10 pin before it hooked away and that was with me standing way left and rolling over 18 and taking everything I could off it.

We were very depressed and felt small and insignificant compared to them...

This loss was very painful and makes you want to quit the game.
If such high ball speed and high revs are what is needed to bowl well, then we really don't have the physical ability to do that, so I guess we are done in today's modern game.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Dark Legend Solid
Hammer Widow Spare

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#197901 - 07/26/17 01:17 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 366
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
You know what, Nord? I enjoy reading some of your comments and your videos show how well you've gotten. You've learned pretty much what balls and surface seem to work for you. Stick with that!
Today you sound like a poor me baby and feeling sorry for yourself.
As for me I bowl against some teams in our men's league who just kill our team each and every time we meet them. Our team just isn't that good. smile We try really hard, but we hold our own throughout the year. It's just that we don't cash much in the end as others seem to do.
Again, just stick with and live with the ups and the downs. That's life...

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#197902 - 07/26/17 01:29 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
I hate to mention this, but playing outside and taking speed off was the last thing you should have done.

On 44 feet of oil with low rev's to begin with, you should never have been farther right than the 12-13 boards.

Think of it this way. Your ability to strike is controlled by matching up speed and RPM's and having a much/many as you can create coming off the pattern.

By moving outside and slowing down, you removed both dynamics and gave your ball an impossible task to recover from.

No matter how good you may be, there will always be someone better. Don't complain because you got beaten by someone better. Why get testosteronic? It's league, not the TOC. Work on your own game, be as good as you can be and be happy for others who bowl well.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

Top
#197907 - 07/26/17 02:27 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Online   content
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 713
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

None of the high rev guys played left of second arrow.
The 70 year old did a second arrow fade out to 8 and back all night.
The urethane player laid it down on 6 down and in.
There third player right up 7 and it hooked hard at the break point.
Their fourth player right up second arrow.

My Teammates had to play in the drier area right of second arrow or the ball would never read.
No way any of them could even think of playing inside second arrow, too much oil. They might as well have used their spare balls if they played inside.
With my Midnight Scorcher particle urethane I could play right up second arrow if I kept the ball slow, the only problem is at 10 mph it would cut loose and I had trouble keeping it from crossing over.
But if I upped the speed, then it wouldn't roll up.

Yes, it was very depressing. I work very hard with what I have but when you see big men with big power just step in and stomp you like it is nothing to them, well, it is very hard.

I did learn some lessons last night. If I had a much stronger ball I could have thrown it faster and could have gotten a better effect. On these lanes with Big Ben my team is generally friction challenged.

The other team because of their high revs could just rifle the ball and it would leap at the pins with deadly effect.
To them, Big Ben on Anvilane is just an easy house shot.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Dark Legend Solid
Hammer Widow Spare

Top
#197908 - 07/26/17 04:00 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
steveA Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/21/12
Posts: 562
A/S/L: 57/male/newcastle:uk
Nord
This may be controversial but do you really want to go to the alley every time and bowl 300 games. Yes I'd like to do it (at least once) but to do it game after game , where's the fun, that sense of getting the ball to do what you wanted to pick up that tricky spare . I'd bet the satisfaction is as high or higher if you had 5 splits converted then 5 strikes in a row. Yeah league is about beating the other guy/,team but that personal satisfaction is way up there too.
_________________________
PB
High game 257
series 704



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