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#197656 - 06/11/17 12:55 AM Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces ***
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
Are shiny balls more susceptible to deflection than dull balls?

I ask because last Saturday, I started with the Ebonite Gamebreaker 2 in the first game and carried just about everything that hit around the pocket (Strike, Spare, Strike, Split, 7-bagger).

After the lanes started transitioning, I balled down to the Motiv Venom Shock and was able to stay in the pocket. Carry initially looked good, I opened with a 3-bagger but then left a solid 8 pin on a flush pocket shot. I strung two after that and then left another solid 8 pin on another seemingly flush pocket shot.

Someone told me due to the Venom Shock being shiny, it deflected off the 1-pin and went straight back into the 5-pin which also went straight back.

Does that seem right? My Gamebreaker is 14lbs, the Venom Shock 15lbs. It would seems that the heavier ball would be less likely to deflect.

Thoughts?
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#197657 - 06/11/17 05:04 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 499
A/S/L: 69/M/California
The answer to your question is 'maybe'.

The prime directive in real estate is location, location, location.

The prime directive in bowling is friction, friction, friction.

Forget what your eyes see and instead look for what your ball 'really' does and when.

Ball motion is made up of skid, hook and roll. During these 3 phases, where 'friction' takes place and for how long will determine if a pocket hit will carry.

Bowlers can control speed, RPM's and entry angle. If we match these 3 items up to skid, hook and roll properly, we will get strikes. If we don't we won't.

When a person throws a pearl or polished ball and gets tapped, what's really happening? We know it deflected because the 10 is still standing and the 6 is in the gutter, but why?

First, if the bowler is throwing the same speed, the skid phase was most likely longer. Because of less surface friction, the hook phase will also occur over a longer distance. Finally, when the ball begins to recover, where is it on the lane? Most likely the entry angle is now too wide and unless the bowler has enough RPM's and the right speed, even if the ball gets back to the pocket, it won't have enough juice to carry.

Some bowlers will decide the ball isn't strong enough. I would conclude the bowler wasn't strong enough :-)

It's the bowler who needs to control their equipment. I would have moved my feet left and/or feet and line left before I ever balled-down. That way, I know when I ball-down, I'm already lined up. All I'm trying to change is the RPM's with a weaker ball surface. If we ball down without moving left first, it's more than likely we'll send a mess-cook to do a man's job :-) Once the wrong choice is made, the fishing expedition begins.

Ever heard a fellow bowler say "Call off the search party" after a person whose gone fishing gets dialed back up? LOL! They know :-)

Don't adjust too soon.
Don't wait too long.
Feet first, then feet and line.

Only when your RPM's are too low to carry for the speed you throw should you consider going to a weaker ball.

If you follow this simple formula, with luck you'll already be lined up. When I speak of a weaker ball, dual angles, pearl, polish or lower perfect scale will all work.

Recently, I've begun experimenting with sanded balls and wider VAL angles. Why? They allow me to move left farther without running out of RPM's as soon. As I get older, the thought of packing around, unloading, loading and cleaning 5 balls is losing its luster. Maybe a 15 pound 'Pitch Black' off the corner is all I need. Then a nice pair of shoes ..................... zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
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#197658 - 06/11/17 07:31 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1079
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Ball deflection may not be the cause for leaving the Stone 8 . I don't usually make a change when leaving the Stone 8 if everything looks good. I take it as bad luck. The head pin may be deflecting off the 2 pin into 5 pin taking out the 5 pin before the ball gets there. Shiny balls being the culprit I don't think so. It can happen with a dull ball. The perfect strike the ball should hit the 1-3-5-9. If the 5 is taken before the ball gets there chances are you are going to leave the 8. Now I guess the question is why does the headpin deflect in a way that takes the 5 out on a shot that looks perfect?

Bowling's 8 pin tap also solid 8 pin or stone 8


Edited by BOSStull (06/11/17 07:55 AM)
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#197659 - 06/11/17 02:40 PM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9551
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
the 14 pounder would be subject to more deflection then the 15. But, you had a turkey first, where it didn't.

I would suspect the culprit is your angle of rotation and entry angle. If too wide, 8-9 degrees, yes I see 10 pins. If too much forward roll, yes it could leave 8 pins.

I contend, its your hand and not the ball.

If the 5 went straight back and missed the 8, your ball hit it square. the ball finished too strong and drove thru the pocket. that is not deflection.
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#197661 - 06/12/17 03:03 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
Interesting. The GB2 has a different shape from the Venom Shock (The former more of a hockey stick and arc for the latter) so entry angle is definitely different.
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Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs Columbia 300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs Columbia 300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Blend10 OSW
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

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#197662 - 06/12/17 04:22 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: BOSStull]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 499
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Solid 8's are rare under normal circumstances. If someone is leaving a lot of them, either the pins are not being set correctly, or they're not 'solid' 8's, but 'weak' 8's.
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15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#197663 - 06/12/17 05:13 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9551
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Originally Posted By: goobee
Interesting. The GB2 has a different shape from the Venom Shock (The former more of a hockey stick and arc for the latter) so entry angle is definitely different.


So this simple game of rolling a ball complicates itself again by adding other variables to the equation.
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#197664 - 06/12/17 03:04 PM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 499
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Bowling is still simple, but using the new balls complicates it :-)

Each of us imparts some variables during our delivery. Speed, RPM's, axis-tilt and axis-rotation. For lack of a better term, let's call the sum of all these parts 'energy'.

The new balls will use up that 'energy' on the way to the pins. Use it up too quickly and the ball will be DOA. Use it up too late and the ball won't hook or will deflect.

It's up to each of us to determine the best way to release that energy for our own style and for the ball we own.

Aggressive balls will use up energy earlier. They won't skid as far and like to hook hard. Both drain energy.

I watch bowlers drill everything skid-flip (hockey stick), only to see their pocket hit's leave weak 10's. I also see nice slow arcing shots that do the same thing. The motion looks good, but how much energy is still left in the tank when the ball gets to the pins?

If as the USBC says, speed and RPM's off the oil pattern are the 2 most important factors to carry strikes, we all should have our speed and RPM's measured accurately, so each time we drill a ball, we can see what that drilling did to our speed and RPM's.

The message here, it's not the shape of the ball's motion, but the amount of energy being expended in the pocket.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#197667 - 06/13/17 12:29 AM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: 82Boat69]
goobee Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69

The message here, it's not the shape of the ball's motion, but the amount of energy being expended in the pocket.


Very true statement. When I am able to throw a tight arc, my pocket hits are much more explosive than when I have to play wider. Being speed challenged as I am, the more boards the ball has to cover, the more power is scrubbed away.
_________________________
Primary

14lbs Ebonite Gamebreaker 2
15lbs Motiv Venom Shock
14lbs Columbia 300 Antics (Weak)
15lbs Columbia 300 Antics (Agg)

Secondary

15lbs Blend10 OSW
15lbs Motiv Venom Panic
15lbs Motiv Rebel Tank

Spare

15lbs Faball Nail

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#197668 - 06/13/17 12:39 PM Re: Dull versus Shiny Ball Surfaces [Re: goobee]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1320
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
all of this to say - the ball has to hit the 1, 3, 5, 9. The 1 takes out the 2, 4, 7. The 3 takes out the 6 and 10. The 5 takes out the 8.

While it may be true that your ball deflected too much, it would have been off the 1 and 3. The stone or weak 8 is there because the 5 didn't drive into it.

Rather than blame the ball, look at the trajectory of the ball.

Too little angle can mean that the ball deflected off the 1 and not enough off the 3 so it pushed the 5 left away from the 8.

Too much angle can mean that the ball deflected less off the 1 (drove through it), and into the 5 and off the rack through the 8 leaving the 9.



82 is right with all of the slide, skid, roll info. But really, when it comes down to it, it's what happens with the ball AT THE PINS. You can roll an old-school ball right at the pocket and deliver strikes - if you get the angle and entry right. (you just have a lot less wiggle room going straight) Slide, skid, roll is about getting the ball to the pins at the right angle. smile
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