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#197503 - 05/16/17 09:31 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 484
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Trial and error based on how much punishment your wallet can take.

My PAP is 6-3/16 which tries to roll-out early so I tend to buy balls with a 2.48 RG and drill the back-end out by using wider VAL angles.

I've been playing around with more acute VAL angles but only when I'm going across the arrows around 15. Pretty much anything less than 50 degrees will leave too many weak corners if I ask my ball to recover too many boards or too late down lane.

I also use 14 pounds and Extender Polish which also keeps my ball from rolling out early.

When I watch Norm Duke, I marvel at how well he can control his ball with such a simple delivery. Or, maybe he just makes it look simple.

As I age, it's getting more difficult to make use of the technology that's being marketed.
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#197504 - 05/16/17 10:38 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9529
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Nord, you successfully found a ball, drilling and cover finish that worked at Parkway, on that condition. It may or may not do it under diff conditions. But, chances are, it can be more controllable then going to another ball.

But, what is controllable is the fact that you now know what the ball can and should do. So, you can make the adjustment needed.

You have to be as familiar with every other ball in your arsenal. In league competition, you don't have practice time with a new ball to make adjustments. The ball has to work the first time out of your bag. So, knowing what your first ball is doing is important. But, knowing what its replacement can do better, is at times, more important.

When I practice, I use each ball in my bag. I learn how each differs on the lane condition. I also, bowl at different centers, and some balls work there where they didn't at another house.

There are just too many variables in this game today to say one ball works and another doesn't.

Be happy with the results you have discovered. And, good bowling.

Now, learn another ball. It's like being married to different wives. Each has theirown ideosyncrasies, wants and needs. At times, even temperment is different, as odd as that seems.
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#197505 - 05/16/17 11:15 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 701
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA


To me, the big takeaway from last night's experiment is that I need a lot of ball with a lot of surface to get the reaction I want on normal volume house shots.

My Full Roller release with 90 degree axis rotation, Zero tilt, 150 rpms and low 11 mph speed at the pins tends to mute the power of bowling balls that in other players hands would be weapons of mass destruction.

So using my Dark Legend at 1000 grit gave me a look very similar to my rubber ball on the dry Poway lanes. The rubber ball was still stronger on Poway than the Dark Legend on Parkway however. I had to stay straight up the boards with the Dark Legend to help it pop in the back end while with the Hardwick Rubber ball I can fade it right through the oil and it will turn over and roll strong back.

Tonight I bowl in my second league, Kearny Mesa Bowl with even more oil (Big Ben Pattern) and Brunswick Anvilane surface! Oh, oh...

I will see how the Dark Legend does.

I agree totally that shot Execution and spare making are premium and that simply spending money on the latest ball is dumb. My issue is, even though I am very accurate and pick up the majority of spares and can be in the pocket all night most of the time, on normal modern house shots, my good shot making is not rewarded because my reactive balls have just not been reacting. They have just been skidding and leaving disaster spares.

I now know I need a hell of a lot more surface and ball power. Once the ball starts doing some work for me, my natural smoothness and accuracy will be rewarded and I can start to push my average up.

I think I will take my other reactive balls down in grit until I see them start to do something on the lanes. Then I can sort them based on their unique reaction type and build an arsenal out of them.
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#197506 - 05/16/17 05:17 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9529
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
A reactive cover, strong ball, will slide more on dryer lanes. Especially with that much side rotation.
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#197507 - 05/16/17 06:56 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
nord Offline
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Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 701
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
A reactive cover, strong ball, will slide more on dryer lanes. Especially with that much side rotation.
Why will a reactive cover with low grit slide more on dry lanes?
Wont it just hook and roll out instantly?
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High Series: 621
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#197508 - 05/16/17 10:05 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9529
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Read the whole quote. "Especially with that much side rotation."

Side rotation causes less friction and results in a slide.
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#197509 - 05/17/17 01:48 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 701
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
But with the same side rotation wont a higher grit reactive ball slide even more? I don't get it.
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High Series: 621
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#197510 - 05/17/17 07:41 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9529
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
IDK. I'm not the physicist here. All I know is when teaching bowling, a side rotation slides, when a behind the ball release doesn't. If you get outside your target area, into the dry, your ball won't come back. It stays there, sliding too long.

Maybe someone else can help on this.

Yet, I see crankers bank their balls off the dry???????????? IDK.
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#197511 - 05/17/17 09:31 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 484
A/S/L: 69/M/California
There are a number of good descriptions of ball motion. All start with the ball 'skidding'.

That said, what stops a ball skidding? Friction between the ball and the lane.

What creates friction? A sanded surface will not skid as far as a polished surface.

A ball rotating in the same direction as the skid will create less friction than a ball rotating perpendicular to the skid.

The reason crankers can bank off of the dry area is simply axis rotation and a drier area of the lane.

Reactive cover balls will skid less on drier lanes because they create more 'friction'.

It's friction that stops a ball skidding and allows that ball to begin hooking.

It's also friction that slows a ball to the point that axis rotation takes over.

Here's an easy experiment. Take your favorite reactive ball, put as much axis rotation on it as possible and throw it at a 10 pin. Record the speed with a stop watch or using the on-lane camera. Now, do the same with a plastic ball. The plastic ball will travel much faster over the same distance. Why? Less friction between the lane and the ball.
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14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Storm Lock : 65 x 5 x 65 Polished
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: 1979 Version

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

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#197512 - 05/17/17 11:34 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1313
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
It's called Hysteresis.
Quote:
the phenomenon in which the value of a physical property lags behind changes in the effect causing it, as for instance when magnetic induction lags behind the magnetizing force.


With regards to traction (as in our bowling balls) we have two things working.

First is the amount of ball surface contacting the lane through the oil. A "slick" will slide on the oil until it gets to dry whereupon it will grab traction quickly. Something with a LOT of grit will grab through the oil and be more progressive, and then when it hits dry it will still grab, but not as much because there is not as much surface on the dry . . . BUT - if you balance the grit (i.e. just enough but not too much) then you will get the ball to read earlier. Too much and you're not actually putting much of the ball surface to the lane. Too little and you're hydroplaning (oil-planing? LOL)

Second is the degree to which the ball has to change its rotational direction. In your case, Nord, you've got a very large amount of directional change to do. You're rotating directly toward 9:00 but at the end, your ball is rotating toward 11:30 - so that's nearly 90 degrees of change.

Now - apply hysteresis to this. The traction value (the physical property) will lag behind the skid until the traction can catch up - and even a bit more. The principle is that once you exceed the threshold, you have to come back INSIDE the threshold before it applies again. In the case of your ball, it has to get within its traction threshold to stop sliding - and the amount of time will vary depending on how far it has to travel to get there.


So, you have two thresholds you're looking at - grit (where there is a diminishing return - as JoeBowler found in some of his extensive experimentation) and traction (where we have the hysteresis principle occurring)
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