BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 4 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#197478 - 05/13/17 03:06 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I read once that as oil soaks into the surface, it actually goes thru to the filler, where it collects. that creates an imbalance to the ball's intended dynamics.

I only have 2-part balls now. No filler in any and well cleaned after use. I ran an older, 2-part ball thru the rejuvenator oven at the Pro Shop. After an hour, no oil came out. Pro Shop guy was amazed.

Nord, I had a practice of every 50 games on reactive balls I would bake and resurface. However, I found that I only got 40 games before it needed it again. Each time the life was less.


Edited by Dennis Michael (05/13/17 03:10 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#197480 - 05/13/17 08:48 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1093
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael

Finally, took out some old equipment, and tried it. One ball, in particular, had a symmetrical core, a 2.60 rg and a diff of .032.

Wow, I got length, a strong finish, and with consistency. Moreover, I was able to control it with my speed.

I've done all the tricks; stand back, take longer step, hold ball higher, and added a step. Some with mixed results. But, that one ball has given me hope.

y.


Which ball?

Dennis,I went to practice with a friend last Sunday and when I got to the lanes I found out the oil machine was broken and the lanes had not been oiled for about 3 days. Almost walked out but the games were free and I needed to work on a few things. Of course pretty much nothing worked in my bag with any consistency until I pulled my L/M New Standard.The NS is a particle ball with the cover being close to the original OOB sheen finish. The NS had enough length with a nice controllable arc to the pocket with carry. Makes you wonder why this particle ball works on all conditions effectively. Why did manufacturers move away from particles?
_________________________
HG 300, HS 811

https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/





Top
#197481 - 05/13/17 09:47 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Funny that you mentioned Lane Masters. It was my Black Diamond, LM ball.

It is strange how those balls work when others don't. I actually went and got 2 others, which I carry now. Got rid of a DV8, a Brunswick and a Lane1 ball. Replaced them with the BD, Extreme Damage and a Terminator, all 3 are LM.

Why I replaced them with Asymmetrical cores, I'll never know. This was my arsenal 8 years ago, and are in my bag today. Terminator being the strongest, BD a little less and the ED is a pearl.

Today, I will bring my Hornet to the lanes for no-oil Saturday. I have 4 more LM balls that might see a resurgence and a new life. Those damned balls just work for me.

The ED was the ball I had oil extracted from. And, there was no oil. It just needed a refinish, and polish and ready to go.


Edited by Dennis Michael (05/13/17 09:50 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




Top
#197482 - 05/13/17 10:04 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1093
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
I read once that as oil soaks into the surface, it actually goes thru to the filler, where it collects. that creates an imbalance to the ball's intended dynamics.

I only have 2-part balls now. No filler in any and well cleaned after use. I ran an older, 2-part ball thru the rejuvenator oven at the Pro Shop. After an hour, no oil came out. Pro Shop guy was amazed.

Nord, I had a practice of every 50 games on reactive balls I would bake and resurface. However, I found that I only got 40 games before it needed it again. Each time the life was less.


I have 3 LM 2 piece balls, 2 that are in the bag and 1 on the shelf. They only need normal cleaning and very little cover maintenance. On the other side of the coin I have a couple of GURUs that are very high maintenance so much that I opted for the yearly maintenance for all my balls at my PS. Out of the 3 LM balls only the BuZZ Premium had a resurface to the original specs mainly due to rough lay down spot that developed on the ball. All my other balls have a few visits to the shop.
_________________________
HG 300, HS 811

https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/





Top
#197483 - 05/13/17 10:17 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: Dennis Michael]
BOSStull Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 1093
A/S/L: 61/M /Georgia
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Funny that you mentioned Lane Masters. It was my Black Diamond, LM ball.

It is strange how those balls work when others don't. I actually went and got 2 others, which I carry now. Got rid of a DV8, a Brunswick and a Lane1 ball. Replaced them with the BD, Extreme Damage and a Terminator, all 3 are LM.

Why I replaced them with Asymmetrical cores, I'll never know. This was my arsenal 8 years ago, and are in my bag today. Terminator being the strongest, BD a little less and the ED is a pearl.

Today, I will bring my Hornet to the lanes for no-oil Saturday. I have 4 more LM balls that might see a resurgence and a new life. Those damned balls just work for me.

The ED was the ball I had oil extracted from. And, there was no oil. It just needed a refinish, and polish and ready to go.
Black Diamond and New Standard same DYNASTY core.

Currently I have the NS and Buzz PE in my bag. After a a custom fit from MO when I bought the Radical stuff I had my PS refit the NS and BPE. Now they are my 2 best balls. I still have my Yeah Baby that I will need to have done along a switch grip.
_________________________
HG 300, HS 811

https://www.pinterest.com/bosstull/





Top
#197488 - 05/13/17 05:59 PM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 704
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Ok, thanks for the tips. I will get some of my balls in the oven to see what happens.

As to particle balls. Visionary, who makes the Crow urethane you saw in my video, made a Particle Urethane called the "Midnight Scorcher."

I would love to get one of these. Here is the description for it:

The "Midnight" SCORCHER is equipped with a modified version of the DC weight block encased with a truly unique Retro-Active cover stock.
This ball is designed for medium to heavy oil and is characterized by a very heavy, even roll.

As the cover stock name states - retro (like balls of the past) - this ball doesn't over hook in the dry like a reactive and its specially designed textured surface grabs better and earlier in the oil than any reactive.
There won't be a big jump or snap on the back end and it won't over skate in the oil. This combination of reactions allows for much better control, especially on touchy conditions with out of bounds, etc.

As oil carries down to the bowler's break point area, there is little effect on the ball because the difference between the ball's reaction on oil and dry is much smaller than with any other ball.
This allows the bowler to make fewer moves to adjust to the changing lane conditions and often lets the player have more of an opportunity to play a shot closer to what they prefer instead of always being forced to play what the lanes dictate.

Those expecting a snap when the ball goes from oil to dry will be disappointed but those who get tired of constantly having to move and adjust because the oil shifts will love it.

***This ball does not polish easily and was not designed for dry lanes or heads.***





Attachments
scorcher-ball.png




Edited by nord (05/13/17 06:00 PM)
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
House Avg: 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Visionary The Crow Urethane
Visionary The Judge Urethane
Brunswick Grizz Urethane

Top
#197489 - 05/14/17 07:52 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 266
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
Quote:
the DC weight block

I tried to find what that might look like but no luck,any help?

Did find some interesting comments on this ball,

http://www.[Banned-URL].com/visionary/Midnight-scorcher-question-t203997.0.html
_________________________
L/T 48
Code Black

Top
#197500 - 05/16/17 02:11 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 704
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA

A quick update:

In order to understand what is going on at the Parkway lanes and to figure out what I need reaction wise, in league tonight, I performed an extreme ball test.

Two balls were tested:
The Crow Urethane with medium RG, medium diff Symmetric core with a high flare layout at 4000 grit vs. the Dark Legend Solid with ultra low RG asymmetric core, high diff, with high flare layout at 1000 grit.

Result:
The urethane would not roll or carry once it got oil on it, but the Dark Legend would get up the lane nicely and move hard off the spot and carry wonderfully.

So there you have it.

A super low RG, early rolling core, with a super strong cover at 1000 grit and the highest flare layout made for Full Roller worked wonderfully for me and did not overreact at all.
I could even use the ball for all spares except the 10 pin.
I could roll it up second arrow all night and it would get great length then start rolling really strong.
If I hit my target it was a strike every time.
I had 7 strikes in the second game, a turkey and a hambone.
I averaged 192 for the night.
Now I did have to keep the ball in the oil, on, or inside second arrow, but the reaction was very manageable.
A one board miss right and the ball would come back fine, any more than that and the ball would die out and not make it back.
I only had one ten pin all night!

My ball speed was medium, on average 11mph at the pin deck so about 13-14 mph off my hand.

Thoughts?
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 621
House Avg: 177

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Visionary The Crow Urethane
Visionary The Judge Urethane
Brunswick Grizz Urethane

Top
#197501 - 05/16/17 04:21 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
82Boat69 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 514
A/S/L: 69/M/California
I think you're getting farther and farther away from the truth.

The surface of a ball and the surface of a lane represent 85%+ of that ball's 'potential' motion.

Go here;

http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/08ballmotionstudy.pdf

Go to Page 13

You will find the other characteristics of a ball like RG and Diff have almost no impact on ball motion relatively speaking. They do affect ball motion, but at your level, that affect is almost non-existent.

Ball manufacturers want bowlers to believe their advertising hype. So, they prey on bowlers lack of understanding about what roll each characteristic plays in an individual's ball motion. By doing this, they sell more bowling balls. Many Pro Shop proprietors do the same thing.

Take RG for example. If you throw at 19 MPH and release with 400 RPM's, RG will play a large roll. If you throw at 11 MPH and release with 50 RPM's, RG is a rumor.

What you're talking about with RG and Diff is flare 'potential'. If you throw at 10-11 MPH and only get 50 RPM's, flare is so reduced as to not matter.

I tell you this to save you from wasting your money. Everyone wants to get as many strikes as possible but until you can hit the pocket 90% of the time, your strike percent is not as important as your spare shooting.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of kick-back by saying this, but with a 156 average, the fastest way for you to improve is to pick up more spares, not get more strikes. Spares don't need much technology. A lot of practice is all you need.

To put all the high-end variables that come with bowling balls to work, requires a delivery that's also high-end.

If you can learn to leave 1 less split, washout or bucket per game and turn that into a spare, your average will jump 10 pins. On the other hand, you can by one high-end ball after another and your average won't change at all, if you can't spare.

Rather than work on their technique and spare shooting, too many bowlers try to purchase an answer. I'm nearing 70 and when people ask me my average, I tell them I'm a lifetime 187. I say that because, I know I can average 187 on any condition using any ball technology.

My recommendation is to get hung up on the game, not the latest ball technology.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1978

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

Top
#197502 - 05/16/17 07:47 AM Re: Reactive Balls are designed to be throw hard! [Re: nord]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9575
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Well, when this report was published, Bill Monce (USBC tester, Milwaukee) and I went around in circles with an argument. The study was partially funded by Ebonite, who also participated in determining the test parameters. And, believe me, there was some bias presented in that determination.

The flaws, as I saw, included:
There was a distinct focus oh porous covers, which not every ball manufacturer subscribed to. It completely overlooked particle covers, which was contrary to the study.

It focused on ball flare resulting from friction. However, speed, axis of tilt, and other factors had to be consistent. And we all know that this really doesn't apply to the broad spectrum of bowlers. As, each has a diff speed and axis. Plain and simple, we, as humans, don't roll the ball like a robot.

Lastly, as I recall, there is a discussion of a term, namely, PERFORMANCE. It's a relative term and, performance can be different for each ball. So, it really can't be measured as a generic term.

Strike potential can be the same, when entry angle can be different. Speed can vary, and rotation and flare is all over with revs.

So, if we all were homogenous as the robot, this could mean something. Each person, rolling the same ball will potentially get different results.

So, what should we be looking for in a ball? And, that varies with each bowler.

A bowler had to know, and it's only through trial and error, what he wants in a ball.

I tend to focus on the Core. Its design will tell me what the intended ball path is designed to do. And, that tells me how the ball is intended to react on the lane. The keys to the Core are RG and Total Diff. As a starting point, they are the most consistent measurements.

Subsequent to that, the cover tells you how the ball will accomplish the intended design of the core. We all see manufacturers using the same cores in different balls. The difference is the cover they put over it. Different covers can make the ball more or less aggressive. And, they are subject to the lane surfaces used on.

But since, the cover is the contact with the lane, dressed or not, it has the most bearing on how the ball will react. If the ball will achieve its core designed intent, exceed it, or lessen the design intent, is the result of the cover.

So, start with the basic. Do you want an arcing ball path that is controllable, or an angular path. The core will tell you. Then look at the friction of the cover to see how it impacts the core intent. It can be reactive resin, or pearl, and even hybrid over the same core. Each will do different things. And, each is significant to itself.

The average bowler is under 200 revs and will roll too fast. So, ball manufactures have designed balls to give those bowlers a hook.

Cater to your market.


Edited by Dennis Michael (05/16/17 07:50 AM)
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




Top
Page 4 of 14 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 13 14 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Fall/Winter Leagues 2017-18 thread
by wronghander - Yesterday at 10:41 PM
Sign up now for winter virtual league (12/24)
by Richie V. - Yesterday at 04:16 PM
Hammer "Black Widow Urethane"
by nord - 11/22/17 12:35 AM
Honor scores 2017-18
by wronghander - 11/21/17 11:58 PM
Any interest in a winter virtual league?
by SteveH - 11/19/17 10:22 PM
Nothing worse than falling apart late in a game
by Jason_C - 11/19/17 10:04 PM
Which ball
by djp1080 - 11/19/17 06:18 PM
Entry Angle
by djp1080 - 11/19/17 12:09 PM
My low track
by Jason_C - 11/17/17 01:38 PM
Back-up Bowling
by djp1080 - 11/16/17 08:31 PM
Has this happenned to any one
by 82Boat69 - 11/14/17 01:24 PM
Two handed with pinky and ring
by Dylan585 - 11/13/17 02:48 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2017 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.