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#197209 - 04/13/17 11:08 AM will the ball hook?
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 256
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
If a ball it tossed with no ccw rotation will it hook?
I think not, undecided
it may curve a little depending on the core, ball
but I would think it should go straight. idea
Em I wrong? smile
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#197210 - 04/13/17 11:32 AM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: W9JAB]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1290
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
well, hook and curve are the same thing. smile

If a ball is ROLLED (i.e. no side rotation - so surface is not in question) . . .

BUT the core is in an unstable position, the ball will turn until the core is in a stable rotational position - just as you said.
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#197212 - 04/13/17 11:51 AM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 309
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Originally Posted By: W9JAB
If a ball it tossed with no ccw rotation will it hook?
I think not, it may curve a little depending on the core, but I would think it should go straight.
Em I wrong?

Here's an article written by John Jowdy. Pay particular attention to part about the Straight Shot.
https://www.bowlingthismonth.com/bowling-tips/changing-hand-positions/

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#197216 - 04/13/17 12:27 PM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: W9JAB]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 29/M/AZ
I'm really only piggy-backing off mmalsed. He hit the nail on the head.

If a ball is rolled end over end and has no core (and the lane is actually flat) it will go in a straight line. If it has a core, that core will attempt to stabilize itself, and then roll in a straight line. If its rolled end over end this correcting motion will be minimal but it will take place.

And the topography of the lane plays a huge role in the matter. No lane is perfectly flat. They're all banked one way or the other. Even if that's only as much as an eyelash, it plays an effect. There are pairs of lanes that will give you fits, and you may just be bowling on an overly banked lane.
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#197217 - 04/13/17 02:39 PM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: champ]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 463
A/S/L: 69/M/California
If there is any axis rotation or axis tilt the ball 'can' hook. This doesn't mean it will.

Once axis rotation and axis tilt both reach zero, the ball will roll in a straight line.

This is true even for balls that have a pancake block or no block at all.
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#197221 - 04/13/17 04:46 PM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: 82Boat69]
mmalsed Offline
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Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1290
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
If there is any axis rotation or axis tilt the ball 'can' hook. This doesn't mean it will.
Once axis rotation and axis tilt both reach zero, the ball will roll in a straight line.
This is true even for balls that have a pancake block or no block at all.


axis rotation and axis tilt are how the ball is delivered off the hand.

The premise was delivery without either.

But I can tell you that my wife delivers the ball without either and the ball does change direction (not much, but a bit).

If the "bulb" of the core (using a light-bulb core as an example) is to the right (or left) then the ball is going to change direction in order to get that bulb in a stable position - i.e. rolling end over end. That's physics. It will precess toward the bulb which will make the ball change directions.

that's hook. smile
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#197224 - 04/13/17 10:19 PM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: W9JAB]
goobee Offline
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Registered: 02/25/15
Posts: 454
A/S/L: 58/M/Sunny California
About a year and a half ago, my arthritic wrist flared up and I could not get under the ball for a few months. I suitcased the ball with my thumb at 9:00. The ball traveled straight 2/3's of the way down the lane before settling into a roll where it moved 5 to 7 boards into the pocket. It wasn't much to look at but it surprised the heck out of me that it could move that much without any help from me.
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#197227 - 04/14/17 09:40 AM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: goobee]
82Boat69 Offline
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Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 463
A/S/L: 69/M/California
If a 'Samsonite' delivery is all you can do, then by all means do that. Here are a few things to keep in mind;

With your thumb at 9 and your fingers at 3-5, thumb and fingers will exit the ball very close together. The result will be more skid and fewer RPM's. While you may get a 5 board move, what happens after that move is what's important.

The movement is the result of weight block position, axis rotation (90 degrees), axis tilt (?) and ball speed (?).

I'm 69 and I also run into wrist problems. I do just the opposite. When my wrist hurts, I wear a glove when I bowl and I also wear it at night when I sleep.

I try to release my ball with as little axis rotation as possible. Thumb at 11-12. I get my ball down-lane with forward roll, not skid. This method allows my delivery to 'store' whatever energy I imparted as far down lane as possible.

The final piece is a relaxed arm-swing. I mean 'very' relaxed. If you relax to the point that you never pull your hand through the ball, you may notice that whatever pain you feel may be reduced. You may also be surprised by how many RPM's you get with less effort.

I think a 'Samsonite' is a very weak hand position. Thumb at 11-12 and fingers at 6-7 is much stronger, but must be combined with a relaxed arm swing.
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#197234 - 04/15/17 11:16 AM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: 82Boat69]
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 256
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
Quote:
'Samsonite' delivery thumb at 9 and your fingers at 3-5,
you may get a 5 board move,
what happens after that move is what's important.


What I get is nice movement but no power at the end, the ball hits weak and no pin action.

As much as I have tried to avoid it, the only way I can get a consistent good strike is by putting some "twist" or side spin on the ball.
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#197251 - 04/17/17 12:41 PM Re: will the ball hook? [Re: W9JAB]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 783
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville

I have always found that if I attempt a backup ball, mine usually goes straight. Out of curiosity, I threw all my various strike balls at the 10 pin in practice once, and whaddaya know? I could pick the 10 with any ball in my bag if I just thought about keeping my pinky above my thumb at release...

YMMV - mine certainly seems to
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