BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#196624 - 02/04/17 08:39 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 358
A/S/L: 69/M/California
A lot depends on the oil pattern. Where I shoot, all the deep oil is in the middle and it thins out rapidly outside 10 and is almost non-existent outside 3-4-5. Any shot thrown into that rare oil outside 5 comes back like a billiard bank shot :-)

Our problem isn't getting the ball to recover, but to get the ball to recover with anything still on it. Anyone who expends their rev's too quickly will be disappointed even if they hit the pocket. Longer pins-to-PAP and wider VAL angles work for me. I also go to polished balls versus sanded.

For 2 games the shot is great but when they go they go pretty quick. We also have 8 lanes that always hook more than the other 14. People on 1 - 8 might start on 25 and end the day on 35. People on the lanes farther to the right may only move 5 or less boards all day.

For one group, keeping rev's up and using less aggressive equipment works best why the others have to keep rev's up but master their speed. Out of 66 bowlers 50 and over, we always have a few 900 series for 4 games. Last week we had a 994 with two 279 games. Shot on lanes 3 & 4 which I think are the highest scoring pair.
_________________________
14 lb Storm Lock : 45 x 4 x 35 Polished
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#196634 - 02/06/17 10:05 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: 82Boat69]
W9JAB Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 196
A/S/L: 62/m/Il.
So what I getting from all the response is to use the "underhand spiral" with the index finger pointing down lane and the little finger close to the ring finger, thumb right of 10:00?

Top
#196635 - 02/06/17 10:25 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
82Boat69 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 358
A/S/L: 69/M/California
The short answer is 'sort of'. The analogy of throwing a football underhand would only be correct if the points of that football were pointing left and right. The analogy forgets a modern bowling ball has a weight-block, surface and a lane condition. The whole purpose behind those 3 variables are to relieve the bowler of doing anything excessive with their release.

If the weight-block is positioned correctly at the release, the rest is unnecessary. Too many become enamored with RPM's without matching all those RPM's with their ball speed. For some what I say is heresy, but when throwing modern bowling balls, less is more. I'm sure Belmo's ears are wringing, but most of us, that is 99% of us, are not Belmo. You must do as much as you can, but it must be repeatable. The simpler your delivery, the more repeatable.
_________________________
14 lb Storm Lock : 45 x 4 x 35 Polished
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

Top
#196638 - 02/06/17 12:45 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
W9JAB Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 196
A/S/L: 62/m/Il.
weight-block, surface?
is it possible that too much surface will over come the wight-block and cause it not to hook?

Top
#196639 - 02/06/17 02:28 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 291
A/S/L: 69/m/IL
Originally Posted By: W9JAB
So what I getting from all the response is to use the "underhand spiral" with the index finger pointing down lane and the little finger close to the ring finger, thumb right of 10:00?

Take a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE

Notice the position of the index finger as each one hand bowler gets the ball to pass the back of their shoe. It's pointing vertically downward. Their thumb is off to the right pointing towards the right hand gutter. Their fingers are underneath the ball similar to how you'd throw a spiral of a football.
I disagree with Boat about the direction of the football. The front tip of the football would be pointing down the lane and the fingers are wrapped underneath it.
Now watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR2kdzL8TS4

Hope this helps...

Top
#196640 - 02/06/17 02:43 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 291
A/S/L: 69/m/IL
The surface has the most effect upon a ball's reaction. If you take the surface down to a low grit finish and toss the ball down the driest boards of the lane or towards them, the ball will tend to lose it's side roll energy that you may have released it with and it's hook will be reduced. Perhaps it will appear not to hook at all.

Top
#196641 - 02/06/17 03:20 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
82Boat69 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 358
A/S/L: 69/M/California
If you visit the USBC site and go to the specifications area and read their ball motion study, they have 15-20 variables that contribute to ball motion. Ball surface and lane surface are 1 & 2. Of the 100% of ball motion, the weight block contributes maybe 15%.

Modern balls when delivered might start with 30 degrees of axis tilt and 45 degrees of axis rotation. Ball/lane surface friction tries to reduce the axis tilt and axis rotation to zero. It's up to the bowler and their pro to drill a ball to expend all those forces at the right place on the lane pattern with out running out of either until the last few feet.

A ball with a very aggressive surface will hook, but if it's too aggressive, it will expend all the forces too rapidly and the ball will roll-out the rest of the way. It may seem it's not hooking but early on it probably did hook, albeit for a very short time.
_________________________
14 lb Storm Lock : 45 x 4 x 35 Polished
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

Top
#196654 - 02/09/17 12:50 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1238
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: W9JAB
So what I getting from all the response is to use the "underhand spiral" with the index finger pointing down lane and the little finger close to the ring finger, thumb right of 10:00?


Yes - except that you have to change the image of the underhanded football spiral. Typically, that's holding the back of the football and then twisting the ball as it's released.

Instead, think of throwing the spiral not "straight" but crooked. The ball traveling straight, but oriented diagonally. Your hand would be wrapped around the middle of the ball, not at the end, and you'd release your thumb and let the football roll off your fingers. I'd use a Nerf football just because it is grippier and easier to picture.

As 82 said, the axis of a football spiral is different than a bowling ball roll. So the two are analogous, but not the same.


As to your other question - it is absolutely possible to put a surface on a bowling ball that will keep it from reacting. I put WAY too high of a surface on one of my balls, bowled the USBC back in April, and that sucker went STRAIGHT as an arrow - it MIGHT have moved a board right at the end. 2000 polished (on an IQ Tour Pearl) on the USBC Nats pattern which is long, flat, and unforgiving.

The weight block changes the dynamic of flare and how the ball keeps its rotational direction. More flare means more radical direction change and sharper direction change (in general, right? not counting how much rotation axis is on there, etc.) But if the ball is polished like crazy - it's going to have to wait for traction. No traction, no movement. Think slick tires - TONS of traction when it's dry and sticky. Wet=slide.

And if the lane is slick, that slide won't change. it'll go as long as it can go.

so - all other things being equal, yes, higher polish/finish can overcome the weight block.
_________________________
Avg: 200
Season High Gm: 276 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 714 / Lifetime: 759

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

Top
#196686 - 02/13/17 08:36 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
SteveH Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 699
A/S/L: 61/M/Burlington VT
The underhand football spiral shouldn't be taken too literally. But it's about the only analogy I can think of to get the mind to understand the roll off the fingers once the thumb is out. Once you feel it, it almost feels (to me), like you've dropped the ball early and it won;t end up well. But when you feel your ring finger as the last touch of the ball, look downlane and watch the beauty.

I don't feel this enough, partly because I have an ugly tendency to not get the ball close enough to my slide foot. This takes the ball off target, and many times crossing over occurs.

In practice, I've resorted to taking my approach out of the equation, which I find makes it easier to focus on the release. Many coaches use the no-step, release at the foul line drill to do this. At the very least, it allows you to Feel the right release. Incorporating the proper approach, timing and release into one smooth, and consistent motion, is what makes good bowling so difficult.
_________________________
Current League average 184

High League game: 279
High League Series: 672
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Storm Crux
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
#196687 - 02/13/17 09:01 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: SteveH]
82Boat69 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 358
A/S/L: 69/M/California
If you're having difficulty delivering your ball close to your sliding foot, it's usually caused by sliding under your left shoulder instead of the center of your body. People who do this also have a tendency to fall out of their delivery to the right or sometimes to the left. It's pretty easy to cure once you realize what you're doing. Just moving your slide foot right will cause all the other facets of your delivery to fall into place so you can stay balanced and post up properly shot after shot.
_________________________
14 lb Storm Lock : 45 x 4 x 35 Polished
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Winter '17 Week 11 VL results
by Richie V. - Today at 12:39 AM
Parallel Sparing
by leodlion - Yesterday at 11:55 AM
2017 USBC Open Championships
by champ - Yesterday at 10:16 AM
Fall/Winter Leagues 2016-17 thread
by Richie V. - 03/26/17 09:51 PM
Hurling the ball
by 82Boat69 - 03/24/17 11:30 AM
better release - drilling - drills
by spectral - 03/24/17 08:45 AM
2 handed bolwing
by W9JAB - 03/21/17 02:28 PM
Winter '17 Week 10 VL results
by Richie V. - 03/20/17 04:27 PM
Ex-Brunswick Zone XL
by Dennis Michael - 03/20/17 10:06 AM
Do you think the're done
by Fin09 - 03/18/17 02:02 PM
Was not a happy camper
by W9JAB - 03/15/17 09:24 PM
bowling glove plus
by mmalsed - 03/15/17 11:49 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2017 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.