BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#196588 - 01/31/17 06:01 PM Do you or donít you
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 266
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
seeingstars
When releasing your (strike) ball do you put any twist in to it?

I have seen many videos that say ďmodernĒ release, let the ball roll off your fingers,
lift with the fingers up the back of the ball.
When I do that the ball goes straight. I have tried this with thumb from 12:00 to 3:00.

I can do a ďsuitcaseĒ release but the ball arrives flat.

But if I go from a thumb @ 10:00 to 3:00 fingers coming from 5:00 and then with a little twist over the top of the ball I can get it to hook.

So Iím confused what is the proper way to release the ball? help


JOE
_________________________
L/T 48
Code Black

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#196589 - 01/31/17 06:36 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 346
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Joe, Here's an excellent article on getting your ball to hook:
http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/why-wont-my-ball-hook-part-three
You might want to read Parts 1 and 2 as well while you're at it.
Lately I've been keeping my hand quite low in my stance while using little pushaway and attempting to keep my backswing to a minimum. I have almost no cupping of the ball (i.e., wrist straight), fingers pointing to the left at about 45 degrees from the index finger and the index finger underneath the ball pointing toward my target (board 9 at the row of dots 7 feet down the lane).
During my swing I'm keeping my hand in the same position throughout the swing. As the ball comes down from the top of the swing around at my shoe my thumb exits the ball and the weight of the ball is on my fingers only. I come through the ball giving it some revolutions at 45 degrees from the direction of the ball toward my target. That's it.
My ball gets out in front of me a little and I can watch the revolutions on the ball by watching the finger inserts and thumb slug revolve around at the ball goes down the lane. Doesn't yours?
I've placed a piece of tape where the PAP is located and have watched how it progresses from being at the back of the ball and then turns from there to the left side of the ball as it migrates down the lane. Nice!
The fingers give the side rotation which is just about 45 degrees from the momentum of the ball has toward its first target. The next major target is the breakpoint down at about 40 feet where the ball encounters lots of friction. Hopefully the ball still has some rotation left when it gets there to make its move toward the pocket. smile
Good luck!

Top
#196590 - 01/31/17 06:52 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 346
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Joe, When you get down to the lanes, try Joe Slowinski's drill as shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr9lDk848-g&index=3&list=PL067F4774D3519BC8
Note that his index finger is pointed towards the pins, his thumb exits the ball and is pointed towards the left. Once the thumb exits the fingers provide a side rotation of the ball at around 45 degrees from the direction of the ball down the lane. Watch the nice break towards the left side of the lane down on the dry boards. smile

Top
#196613 - 02/04/17 11:29 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2098
A/S/L: 30/M/AZ
While most pros do, you can still develop a very powerful and dynamic release with no moving of the wrist. And that's good for us amateurs because we don't get in nearly the same amount of repetitions as pros. And since the name of the game is "repeating" its best to keep it simple.

My normal release has my hand locked at a 5 o'clock position behind and under the ball. You don't want your hand on top of the ball with the ball dangling from your fingers; the fingers should be under the equator of the ball and slightly to the right (if you're a right hander.)

Strive for a release like the middle picture. The picture on the left is why so many people come to forums struggling with hook and hitting power.
_________________________
Career Highs: 300/759

Top
#196614 - 02/04/17 11:38 AM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: djp1080]
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 266
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
The problem here is that so many good bowlers are rotten teachers.

I.E. I have watched videos form Duke,Weber, Ray and the like, I feel, someone told them that they can make a few extra bucks if they make a video, but the teaching value of those videos is less than acquitted.

So here I'm asking real bowlers DO YOU PUT ANY TWIST ON THE BALL?
call it what you like "UNDERHAND SPIRAL" "SPIN" "TWIST" what ever?

I see so much of "let it roll off you hand" "lift with the fingers" or even "SNAP" your fingers. but not spin.

May be I'm not asking it right?

Any feed back will be welcome.
_________________________
L/T 48
Code Black

Top
#196616 - 02/04/17 02:00 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 499
A/S/L: 69/M/California
Never-ever twist the ball. With the new equipment, it's not necessary. Try to work the inside and up the back at the release point. If possible keep your thumb right of 10:30 - 11.

Whenever you release a ball with the thumb at 9, the time between when the thumb exits and the fingers exit is reduce and you lose leverage. Additionally, the hand in this position is one of the main reasons for your elbow to get away from your body and flyaway right.

Here's the explanation for why;

If your ball has been drilled properly, after your thumb exits the hole, then your middle finger and finally your ring finger will exit theirs in that sequence. This progression by itself will cause axis rotation.

However, sometimes you might want more axis rotation or less axis rotation. This is accomplished by spreading the index finger. With the index finger spread, the release becomes weaker causing the hand to go around the ball easier. The problem is, if its not done moderately, you will create the 9 o'clock position mentioned earlier.

There are dozens of 'release' videos to watch. They all show the fingers in the 7-8 o'clock position prior to the thumb exiting its hole. After that, the fingers come up the back or maybe slightly inside out.

You should read the pros & cons of too little and too much axis rotation. With today's equipment, I recommend too little as opposed to too much.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

Top
#196617 - 02/04/17 02:09 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: djp1080]
82Boat69 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 499
A/S/L: 69/M/California
One other point. The farther left most bowlers move their feet on the approach, the more likely they are to turn over their shots. Its mostly psychological. From deep-inside it seems it will be easy to just airmail a shot into the channel. Throw the same shot from inside as you would from outside. Keep your hand behind the ball. Send as many RPM's and as much speed down the lane. If your hand twists, all that leverage is lost. Finally, don't 'lift' if you can help it. In the past lifting was encouraged. Today, staying relaxed and only imparting RPM's after the thumb exits is preferred.
_________________________
15 lb Storm Hy-Road : 65 x 3-3/8 x 25 500/1000 Grit
14 lb Storm Lock : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
14 lb Ebonite Cyclone : 50 x 5 x 50 Polished
15 lb Columbia Blue Dot: Circa 1979

325 RPM'a @ 16 MPH

Top
#196618 - 02/04/17 03:29 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
SteveH Online   biggrin
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 746
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
It's certainly key to fixing my game. Keep the hand behind the ball, release closest to your slide foot as you can. At first, it felt very, very weird. What at first felt like a weak release, with your fingers seemingly hanging on for dear life, looking downlane and seeing the ball hook at your downlane target and roll in is priceless. It Felt weak. This was my main problem, Trying to make it hook. That typically ended up with turning the hand and the thumb ending up towards 9, as you say.

I'm going to get back to practicing my release, my timing.

I also understand that the old style Lift, as you say 82, typically meant lifting behind the ball, producing rpm's, but no hook.

A huge part of this process, beyond getting your timing to the line down properly, is flexibility. Getting your right leg to sweep, allowing the right hip to get out of the way, and providing the balance and leverage you need to release that ball just outside your slide foot.

I now totally get the pro saying of "Amateurs play the outside of the ball, pros play the inside of the ball. Now the pros can do all sorts of things. Hinged elbows, hinged wrists, severe cupped and unhinging all this power. But unless you have the strength and seven days a week to work on it. timing and release is most important.

I'm going down tomorrow to do my foul line drills first, so working on release, then timing. Puts the mind in focus on one thing at a time, until muscle memory takes over.
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
High League Series: 768
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
#196620 - 02/04/17 06:16 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: W9JAB]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 346
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Originally Posted By: W9JAB
The problem here is that so many good bowlers are rotten teachers.
I.E. I have watched videos form Duke,Weber, Ray and the like, I feel, someone told them that they can make a few extra bucks if they make a video, but the teaching value of those videos is less than acquitted.
So here I'm asking real bowlers DO YOU PUT ANY TWIST ON THE BALL?
call it what you like "UNDERHAND SPIRAL" "SPIN" "TWIST" what ever?
I see so much of "let it roll off you hand" "lift with the fingers" or even "SNAP" your fingers. but not spin.
May be I'm not asking it right?
Any feed back will be welcome.

You're statement of "what ever?" does not apply.
Yes, you essentially roll the ball like an underhanded spiral similar to what is done with a football; no spin or twist. As you release the ball it has forward momentum from your swing and it gets it's side rotation from your fingers (at about a 45 degree rotation or less which depends on how far your middle finger and index finger are separated). Your index finger should be pointed towards the pins, your finger should be under the ball at the point of release, your thumb should have exited the ball and pointed pretty much to the right for a right-handed bowler. The ball should be darn close to your ankle at release as well. If you're able to accomplish this, it will feel as though you're doing nothing to the ball.
IMO Norm Duke's series is excellent and he's a pretty good coach. I'm not familiar with Ray (or do you mean Walter Ray Williams?). Pete Weber is not a coach; however, his technique is wonderful as is Duke's. Walter Ray is a champion, but his technique isn't the best. His results are fantastic.
Also, IMO the fellows who have made the videos are trying to get folks like you and I invested in the game that they love and are willing to share their knowledge with us who likely love the game as well. The coaching I've gotten over the last several years is keeping me in the game and I continue to learn even at this stage in my life. It's been a struggle and I've learned a lot. I've improved my scores using all these fancy balls and trying to use them effectively. It's been a fun trip so far... Good luck Joe!

Top
#196621 - 02/04/17 06:21 PM Re: Do you or donít you [Re: 82Boat69]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 346
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Originally Posted By: 82Boat69
One other point. The farther left most bowlers move their feet on the approach, the more likely they are to turn over their shots. Its mostly psychological. From deep-inside it seems it will be easy to just airmail a shot into the channel. Throw the same shot from inside as you would from outside. Keep your hand behind the ball. Send as many RPM's and as much speed down the lane. If your hand twists, all that leverage is lost. Finally, don't 'lift' if you can help it. In the past lifting was encouraged. Today, staying relaxed and only imparting RPM's after the thumb exits is preferred.

Hey Boat, This past week I started off standing on board 22 and targeting board 8 at the dots. In game 3 I had to stand on board 29 and was targeting board 12 at the arrows. I'd never had to move that far left before. No problem hitting the target as that's where I generally am rolling it to hit my 10-pins with my spare ball. No issue with hand position or anything; however, I was a little worried if the ball would ever come back. It was a flush hit! Wow! Last shot of the game...

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Possible Olympic Events?
by SteveH - 0 seconds ago
Fall/Winter Leagues 2017-18 thread
by wronghander - 47 minutes 21 seconds ago
Storm/Roto Grip MatchMaker Live
by BOSStull - Today at 05:35 AM
approved ball cleaners
by Dennis Michael - Today at 03:20 AM
wanted a 1 ball roller bowling bag
by Richie V. - 10/20/17 06:16 PM
trouble sliding
by Rand - 10/20/17 01:30 AM
HY ROAD NANO
by djp1080 - 10/19/17 07:05 PM
Starting dots/boards?
by djp1080 - 10/19/17 01:42 PM
Storm Hy-Road Surface
by SteveH - 10/18/17 10:06 PM
2017 World Championships (Men & Women)
by Richie V. - 10/13/17 04:43 AM
Finger Swelling
by Dennis Michael - 10/12/17 06:44 AM
People who talk [email protected]#$
by goobee - 10/11/17 09:51 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2017 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.