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#196470 - 01/18/17 10:07 PM Carry down makes the lane pattern longer?
mrthang Offline
Junior

Registered: 03/09/16
Posts: 26
A/S/L: 29/m/Vietnam
Hi guys,

I join my local league this week and have found out one thing. The original oil pattern is 39 feet. We bowled 8 games, lane moving after 2 games. And as the games went on, I had an intuition about the lane carry down because the ball seems to skid more and left me lots of 7-5 split though I throwed it with lots of forward roll (less rotation angle) to make the roll happen earlier. My target is stand at 16 board, throw 9 board at target and roll the ball out to the 7 board.

At the end of the competition day, I went down the lane and OMG! Oil carries down up to 43 feet with a lot of straight line. So I went home and come up with a theory:

Game 1: the lane is still 39 feet
Game 2: the lane will switch to 41 feet (So i need to adjust my target on 41 feet pattern)
Game 3: 41 feet
Game 4: 42 feet
Game 5: 42 feet
Game 6,7,8: 43 feet

Do you think this is a good solution? I'll test it with today's league (day 3).


Edited by mrthang (01/18/17 10:07 PM)

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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#196475 - 01/19/17 11:25 AM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: mrthang]
W9JAB Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 272
A/S/L: 66/m/Il.
ball
I saw a video, of a new oil that was supposed to stay put, not carry down or get picked up by your ball.

The clip I saw, the ball cut a wake in the oil like a boat, and the wake closed after he ball passed.

This is not the video but I think it's the product:
http://www.brunswickbowling.com/products...ign=DEFY%200115

Also on page 19 of the Kegel PDF:
http://www.bowlingsupplycompany.com/email/Kegel_Products&Parts.pdf

You find all kinds of lane oil's.

So to the point, With all of the technology in synthetic lubricants and polymers, WHY DO we still have a problem with this? livid


.
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#196476 - 01/19/17 01:47 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: mrthang]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 469
A/S/L: 72/m/IL
MrThang, I think I'm experiencing similar things in our senior league. The night before there is a ladies league and may guess is that the majority of these people throw plastic balls down the middle of the lane. So this takes what oil there is and moves it down the lane a bit making our typical house shot of 39 feet look more like its 41 or 42 feet.
My shiny bowling balls skid too far down the lane and don't make it back to the pocket effectively using my normal technique. So I brought two other balls with the polish taken off using Abralon pads. One was dulled with a 3000 grit pad and the other a 2000 grit pad. I struggled all morning nonetheless.
My normal shot either missed right or barely hit the 1 and 3 pins. If I moved right, it hooked way too much. I missed lots of right hand spares as I usually throw a hook which made my scores plummet. frown
My guess is that I'll have to move to the left and swing a matte finished ball out and allow it to get into a roll earlier to defeat the carry down oil. Either that or use a less aggressive shiny ball and come up the back of the ball more while aiming at a point more toward the center of the lane than I'm used to.
Our place uses Kegel lane conditioner and a fancy machine to put it down. It's just that they don't oil up the lanes fresh for us seniors...

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#196477 - 01/19/17 04:33 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: djp1080]
RGR Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 147
A/S/L: 62/m/Ontario
That is also my biggest problem oil and oil carry down. Like I said before I like to throw straight down 5 board, should not be that much oil there but lately there has been, ball not coming up and hitting headpin or just touching it. Decided to go into my closet way in the back and pull out my primal rage remix which I haven't used in over a year, never had to. Decided to use it after the first game, and went from a 159 to a 189 and 191 not bad for me considering the lanes. It did not mind the oil that much. Did miss a few spares because it hooked more than I expected on a few shots.

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#196480 - 01/19/17 10:28 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: djp1080]
mrthang Offline
Junior

Registered: 03/09/16
Posts: 26
A/S/L: 29/m/Vietnam
djp1080: You read my mind. The situation here is quite the same like you. But i found out one thing, If I still stay at my position (stand 16 shoot at target 9 and leave the ball out at 7), with more axis rotation and less speed, the ball will steer back to pocket really strong and carry. If I use more forward roll the ball seems to hit the pocket light and leave me 7-5 split. Have you tried this solution? Moving in does not give me more consistency frown

Moreover, on my lane, there are also UFO Spinner guys who throw the balls straight. This makes the situation worse.

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#196481 - 01/19/17 10:32 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: RGR]
mrthang Offline
Junior

Registered: 03/09/16
Posts: 26
A/S/L: 29/m/Vietnam
Hi RGR: I try throwing it down and in. It works for a while but then the oil at the middle part of the lane breaks down, and it make my ball hook sooner. If you throw down-in, it's really hard to get more axis rotation on the ball. And forward roll hit light. It's really crazy to me. i tried it. frown

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#196482 - 01/19/17 10:34 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: W9JAB]
mrthang Offline
Junior

Registered: 03/09/16
Posts: 26
A/S/L: 29/m/Vietnam
Jesus! THis is exactly what we need!

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#196484 - 01/19/17 11:32 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: mrthang]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1162
A/S/L: 53/M/Virginia Beach, VA
Our eyes can play tricks on us- what you may perceive as carry down may very well be oil depletion from the front of the lane. If your ball encounters friction before it reaches the end of the pattern, it will bleed off too much energy and have noting left on the backend. You'll see minimal hook and weak hit, but it's not from carry down.
If you are trying to play up 5 on a house pattern, your ball is going to stand up before the arrows and be rolling much straighter than you would like.
Today's equipment picks up oil from the front part of the lane, but since the track is flaring, it's not laying it back down on the back. Instead, your ball is absorbing some of it, with the rest ending up in your towel or on your shirt.
Carry down will happen to an extent with plastic being thrown, either as a strike ball or as a spare ball, but your hig flaring piece will eventually cut through that, too.
Try moving in and don't send the ball out as far- you'll burn up too much energy when they get touchy, and you'll leave tons of corner pins.
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#196489 - 01/20/17 02:45 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: mrthang]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2144
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
Fin is on the money here guys (naturally, he's a top level bowler.) Carry down does exist, but only to the extent that people are throwing plastic balls down the middle toward the headpin. It doesn't really exist in the exit area of bowlers using reactive balls. That's due to the fact that modern reactive balls flare a lot, and a fresh surface of the ball is continuously in contact with the lane.

Its very hard to train your eye to see roll out as opposed to assuming its carry down, and its even harder to convince your brain. But that's what is happening. You've carved a dry spot at your feet, and the ball is losing its hook potential before it even crosses the arrows.

As the night goes on, first you'll notice your carry getting worse. Then you'll notice your miss room disappear. It can get to the point where you feel totally lost because you have to throw a dead perfect shot to strike. Most people convince themselves that they've somehow forgotten how to bowl in the last two games. Not the case, you've just missed the move.

The next time you think you're seeing carry down, ball down. Trust me. You will see that ball get through the fronts cleaner, make a sharper move to the pocket, and once you're lined up with it you'll find your miss room and carry have returned.
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#196491 - 01/20/17 08:44 PM Re: Carry down makes the lane pattern longer? [Re: champ]
rrb6699 (RayRay) Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 513
A/S/L: Single/male/FL
if you strike on fresh pattern from whatever line you choose to play, then notice that you left a 10 pin (rh), there are things you can do to differentiate between carrydown and burn up or more specifically, the ball entering the roll phase too soon and hitting flat.

1) if you have a ball cover that you can see the ball and how it rolls, you can see if it is spinning and not entering the roll phase or if it starts rolling very quickly. I have several balls with swirl coverstocks. my guru master is easy to tell if you hit oil or not. the coverstock will "turn to a blur" when the ball is rolling out (burning up). but, if I see it trying to recover and the cover colors do not blur, I know its because of oil.

2) look who you are bowling with. what balls are they using and are they playing into your line. inconsistent results start happening when the heads are getting beat up. when you encounter this, it changes the ball roll even slightly.
Most people see this but it doesn't register. Most of the time we think we are throwing the ball wrong. If you think you threw the ball correctly, and you noticed you're having a hard time controlling the pocket, then you can assume that heads are becoming inconsistent.
this is where it pays knowing where the other Bowlers are playing - especially the boards they are hitting in the heads...this becomes very important.

If nobody is playing near your line you can probably move a board maybe two left or right and find a consistent reaction again. Try it. With a little luck that's all you'll have to move.

If that doesn't work, time to ball down so you can get through the heads cleaner. However, you may still have to adjust your target line to the right a little more and be more direct. It just depends on the night and what works.
Don't be afraid to try things. If you try and fail, most likely you will fail by not trying something different anyways. So, what's the difference right?

if you make a bad decision don't panic. just make sure you are still throwing the ball right with good Execution above all else. by losing your Execution you will lose your ability to make logical sense of what is happening on the lanes. worst thing you can do. it's hard to remember this when trouble hits. I know.

line up, throw the ball properly, stay relaxed, watch what happens, adjust.

if you still bowl poorly you know its not from throwing it badly. its from not reading the lanes. maintaining proper form and knowing you are executing is something positive you can still take away from the night. it just means you need to work on reading the lanes. not work on your physical game.

forget, forget, forget the bad results.... remember remember remember to throw it properly. it will help you out a lot. focus on each frame bcause nothing else matters.



Edited by rrb6699 (RayRay) (01/20/17 09:00 PM)
Edit Reason: sp
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