BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#195871 - 11/11/16 11:16 AM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: mrthang]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
My personal experience is also based on a long PAP. Mine is 6-1/4 left, 1-5/16 up. However, my primary layout is 97-1/2 Drilling Angle x 3-3/8 Pin to PAP x 41 Angle to VAL. Those numbers place the Pin precisely 3-3/8 from my PAP and 6-3/4 from the center of my thumbhole. For most balls, symmetrical or asymmetrical, that produces the most track flare and ball reaction of any layout without a balance hole. The 6-3/4 from Pin to center of thumbhole is significant because it places the largest hole in the ball directly in the side of the core which increases the drilled Int. Diff and Total Diff.

My preference these days is not to vary the layout, but to vary balls and surfaces. If I was a staffer, and limited to certain balls, I might be more inclined to vary layouts, but I find it unnecessary with the huge variety of balls available. And, I am confident knowing I am using the strongest layout for my release specs, along with a familiar hook shape. Btw, that layout is not for everybody, as it has the potential to flare over the thumb for bowlers with over 300 RPMs.

Years ago, when I first started drilling my own equipment, I experimented with a huge number of different balls and layouts until I started to see a pattern emerge what scored best for me. It was around that time I purchased Blueprint and it confirmed what I knew intuitively. If I had only purchased it sooner, it would have saved me thousands of dollars.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#195872 - 11/11/16 11:32 AM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
82Boat69 Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 06/24/16
Posts: 710
A/S/L: 71/M/California
I use to do the same. Everything was 50 x 5 x 50 and I just changed balls. When I started drilling my own, I began to experiment. I don't get anywhere near as much hand in the ball as when I was young. If I drill a ball too strong, it just flares out. I've tried strong layouts on weak balls, and while they don't flare out, they still hit pretty weak. I'm also down to 14 pounds. I only get 14 MPH at the pins on a good day.

Top
#195873 - 11/11/16 01:29 PM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
Mkirchie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 875
A/S/L: 39/M/New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
Drilling what appears to be 1-1/4 inch wide by 3 inch deep hole is not what I would consider a minor layout variation.


True, I was only thinking about location, not so much the depth. I think it was too early in the morning when I posted.

I was disappointed with their 3rd video on the CG. When I first saw the thumbnail on youtube, I had no idea that it wasn't really a serious test.

Mark
_________________________
Current Average - 225
HG-300(12)
HS-799

Top
#195882 - 11/13/16 06:22 PM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 473
A/S/L: 72/m/IL
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
My personal experience is also based on a long PAP. Mine is 6-1/4 left, 1-5/16 up. However, my primary layout is 97-1/2 Drilling Angle x 3-3/8 Pin to PAP x 41 Angle to VAL. Those numbers place the Pin precisely 3-3/8 from my PAP and 6-3/4 from the center of my thumbhole. For most balls, symmetrical or asymmetrical, that produces the most track flare and ball reaction of any layout without a balance hole. The 6-3/4 from Pin to center of thumbhole is significant because it places the largest hole in the ball directly in the side of the core which increases the drilled Int. Diff and Total Diff.

My preference these days is not to vary the layout, but to vary balls and surfaces. If I was a staffer, and limited to certain balls, I might be more inclined to vary layouts, but I find it unnecessary with the huge variety of balls available. And, I am confident knowing I am using the strongest layout for my release specs, along with a familiar hook shape. Btw, that layout is not for everybody, as it has the potential to flare over the thumb for bowlers with over 300 RPMs.

Years ago, when I first started drilling my own equipment, I experimented with a huge number of different balls and layouts until I started to see a pattern emerge what scored best for me. It was around that time I purchased Blueprint and it confirmed what I knew intuitively. If I had only purchased it sooner, it would have saved me thousands of dollars.


I've read an article from 2012 I think from Blueprint regarding flare potential of bowling balls. They picked three balls (strong asym., medium asym. and a symmetric) with high differential ratings. It seems to me that if one wanted their ball to flare well they'd pick a drilling angle of 50 degrees. For an asym. ball they'd pick a pin to PAP distance somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 5/8ths and for a symmetric ball 3 3/8ths. For a VAL angle they'd pick one on the lower end of the scale like 25 degrees. This would be a 2:1 ratio of drilling to VAL angles. Am I understanding this correctly?
I just had two balls drilled recently and their layouts were pretty close except one was an asym. and the other was a symmetric. The two balls were the Dark Legend and the Wreck-It. The Wreck-It seems to have a stronger back end. My guess is that I should have asked the PSO to take the VAL angle down from 50 degrees to 25 or 30 degrees on the Dark Legend and increase the pin to PAP distance from 4 to 5 5/8ths or so. Then the Dark Legend might have had the flare advantage... Hope I'm on the right track...

Top
#195887 - 11/14/16 06:38 AM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: djp1080]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: djp1080
I've read an article from 2012 I think from Blueprint regarding flare potential of bowling balls. They picked three balls (strong asym., medium asym. and a symmetric) with high differential ratings. It seems to me that if one wanted their ball to flare well they'd pick a drilling angle of 50 degrees. For an asym. ball they'd pick a pin to PAP distance somewhere between 4 1/2 to 5 5/8ths and for a symmetric ball 3 3/8ths. For a VAL angle they'd pick one on the lower end of the scale like 25 degrees. This would be a 2:1 ratio of drilling to VAL angles. Am I understanding this correctly?
I just had two balls drilled recently and their layouts were pretty close except one was an asym. and the other was a symmetric. The two balls were the Dark Legend and the Wreck-It. The Wreck-It seems to have a stronger back end. My guess is that I should have asked the PSO to take the VAL angle down from 50 degrees to 25 or 30 degrees on the Dark Legend and increase the pin to PAP distance from 4 to 5 5/8ths or so. Then the Dark Legend might have had the flare advantage... Hope I'm on the right track...

I think the link below may be the one you are referring to.
http://blueprintbowling.com/Documents/Bowling%20Ball%20Track%20Flare%20Explained.pdf

However, be cautioned on making personal decisions based on the general findings. The tests were intended for illustrative purposes, for a particular set of release specs, with particular bowling balls, and may not be flare safe for other bowlers, or static legal without an exceptionally long or short Pin, or without adding a balance hole.

For my preferred layout, based on my release specs, I have found it easy to accommodate various balls in the typical 3-4 inch Pin to CG range, with 2-3 ounces top weight, with a balance hole being optional rather than mandatory. And, in Blueprint testing, it typically outperforms other layouts.

While Blueprint is useful for seeing general trends, it is most valuable when you plug in your particular grip and release specs, the particular ball you plan to drill, and the oil pattern you plan to use it.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#195888 - 11/14/16 11:09 AM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 473
A/S/L: 72/m/IL
Yes, that's the one. My grip spec. is 5.5 over and 15/16 up. Most of the balls I have similar specs to what you said and a good share of them have balance holes added.
I've played with Storm's VLS spreadsheet a bit. Have taken the results I got to the PSO and he's agreed that the choice is pretty good.
From the flare article by Blueprint one can conclude that the drilling angle doesn't affect symmetrical balls much at all, but the pin to PAP distance appears to have a greater effect.
The drilling angle seems to affect asym. balls more than symmetrical balls. The VAL angle affects both.
As one changes the VAL angle you can see that the pin buffer distance changes.
I'm going for a lesson either later this week or early next. I think that I'm likely speed dominant, but my speed has come down and my revs have increased a bit. I might be close to balanced, but I think I'd like to get the totals of drilling and VAL angles down a little from what some of my balls have today.
Thanks for your comments. Oh and BTW I'm on a THS. Just trying to learn and understand things better...

Top
#195923 - 11/20/16 09:14 PM Re: How to make use of Hybrid coverstock bowling balls [Re: mrthang]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 871
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
Originally Posted By: mrthang
Hi Joe,

You mentioned about Ball surface change. This is what i wondered for a very long time. If you use grit pad to change the surface of your bowling ball, then next time, you keep changing it, and changing it. So by the end of some time, how could you define it as a ball for which oil condition? We may get lost with that ball. I am wrong?


I do not surface at the hall...I have a spinner at home and keep track on a printed spreadsheet what I have done and when. This way I can mark which surfaces work for which balls and mark off attempts that produced poor results...

YMMV - mine certainly seems to.
_________________________
In decreasing order of reaction:
Brunswick Danger Zone re-release
Storm Reign-of-Fire
Hammer Onyx Vibe (original)
Rotogrip Winner - box
Elite Gold Label
Storm Polar Ice - 4k+polish

avatar is out of date
equipment list too

Top
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Arthritis?
by 82Boat69 - 12/12/19 09:43 PM
Friends made a dumb bet
by Dylan585 - 12/05/19 07:50 PM
Difference between shammy & microfiber towel
by Dylan585 - 12/05/19 07:49 PM
Bowler turns 100
by Dennis Michael - 11/19/19 05:04 PM
Our Bowling Ally is now Chuckie Cheese
by djp1080 - 11/18/19 07:59 PM
Major News in the Industry
by Mkirchie - 11/17/19 04:35 PM
Good morning everyone...
by djp1080 - 11/17/19 12:50 PM
Plastic or Urethane?
by Dennis Michael - 11/17/19 12:45 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2019 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.