I've read on this forum that if a ball hits the head pin between the 17th and 18 boards, the strike percentage reaches 100%. Does this take into account the angle of the ball into the pocket? Would a ball thrown straight down the seam between the 17th and 18th boards (0 degrees) guarantee a strike? I would expect the ball to deflect off to the right (for a right-handed bowler), and therefore not hit the 5 or the 9 pin, which by definition have to be hit by the ball for a "perfect" strike. Conversely, a ball hitting the pocket at say a 60 degree angle into the pocket would hit the 1, 3, and maybe the 5, but not the 9 pin.

Someone once told me that a 6 degree angle into the pocket results in the most strikes. Has anyone else heard this, or something similar? If this is true, can you determine a "perfect" breakpoint?

Firstly you have to understand that something being statistically 100%, doesn't mean anything in the real world.

You still have to contact the head pin every time with less than 1/8 inch discrepancy, to achieve 100% strike probability.

As far as the laws of physics goes, when round objects collide, energy is transfered directly from the point of contact, through the center of the object, regardless of direction of motion, until you exceed an angle of 90 degrees from the direction of travel to the point of contact.

So theoretically is it doesn't matter if the ball contacts the head pin at 2 degrees or 6 degrees. However in reality we know from experiments, that 6 degrees is a perfect entry angle for a high strike probability.

Now hitting these standing round objects in a manner that causes the lines of pin concussion to form in straight lines, is no guarantee the you will carry the full rack. The probability of the ball expending its energy before contacting the 5 pin is high. Changing the angle to be more advantageous to hitting the 5 pin can cost you the entry angle to carry the corners.

So even though the statistics point out a given being more probable than another given, it doesn't mean that you can execute it precisely and repeatably.

I agree that the energy is transfered perpendicular to the contact point, but the amount of energy is a factor of the contact point relative to the path of the ball (ie hitting the pin dead-on versus just clipping it). Also, all other things equal, a 5 degree difference in the angle into the pocket is a 5 degree difference in the deflection off the head pin.

So if 6 degrees has the highest probability of producing a strike, then if your ball's breakpoint falls along an imaginary line from between the 17 and 18 board at a 6 degree angle, would that be a "perfect" breakpoint?

And if you are a billiards player you know that the side spin on a ball will impart an opposite spin on the object it contacts. Spinning objects in contact with a surface (the pin deck) will not travel in the same path as a moving object without spin.

So would a bowling ball with "English" hitting between the 17th and 18th board impart the same pin mix as a ball hitting the same spot with no side spin?

Coach makes a good point about the ball expending it's energy. You can hit the hole all day with the perfect angle and get tapped because the ball is deflecting and not driving through the pocket.

I hear so many people curse the lanes when they leave corner pins and then do nothing about it. They insist that it's the lanes and not them. When they've calmed down enough, I tell them to watch where their ball is rolling off of the back of the pin deck, and that I've never seen someone leave a 10 (for a righty) when the ball goes off the lane behind the 5 pin. Then they watch where their ball is falling off the pin deck and it's well right of the 5 pin.

Then you need to figure out why that's happening. Is the ball in the oil too long and not getting the roll it needs? Is it rolling out? Do you need to move? Switch balls? Change your hand position?

And the change that you need to make might give you a less than optimal angle to the pocket, but it's going to increase your carry.

Where you'd like to be and what the lane will give you are sometimes two different things..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by cheetah:
Someone once told me that a 6 degree angle into the pocket results in the most strikes. Has anyone else heard this, or something similar? If this is true, can you determine a "perfect" breakpoint? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">cheetah,

I'm not anywhere near the authority on this subject as Coach04 and others, but I've gleaned from a book that I'm presently reading, in regards to the Breakpoint - I'm going on memory here, so others need to jump in if Alzheimers has taken over... - an optimum point on the lane to obtain a 6 degree angle into the pocket is for the ball to be on the 7th board around the 40' mark on the lane.

I don't believe that's an absolute or the only optimum Breakpoint; that's just what's running through my mind at the moment.

Hopefully we'll have some more discussion on this specific.

Dave

Dave,

So a breakpoint approximately 2/3 down the lane and around the 7 board is ideal. Thanks!

I'll try it out in my league tomorrow. Hopefully the conditions will permit it.

I just used Excel to create a table showing the breakpoint board and length that will achieve a 6 degree angle into the pocket between the 17 and 18 boards. If anyone is interested in the equation I used, let me know.

Board...Length
1..........39
2..........40
3..........41
4..........43
5..........44
6..........45
7..........47
8..........48
9..........49
10.........51
11.........52
12.........53
13.........55
14.........56
15.........57
16.........59
17.........60

Now all you have to do is mark all the lanes so you know how far 47 feet is

Or a really good golf caddy...

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine and I were watching old PBA broadcasts on my DVR. We watched the pin fall of every shot of Patrick Allen in one game in super super slow motion. It was one of the tournaments he won and he threw a lot of strikes that game. What was fascinating was that not once did the 4 pin take out the 7 directly (he is left handed). In every strike but two the 4 pin bounced off the wall first then hit the seven.

The 2 other strikes were unbelievable but I have since observed it several other times and shown it to friends. The 2 pin after hitting the 4 rides back on the ball until the 2 pin, ball and 8 pin collide all together. The 2 pin flies at an almost unbelievable 90 degree angle off this collision and hits the 7 pin. I have since seen right handers do the same thing, driving the 3 pin off the 9 to take out the 10. In regular speed you would never guess that it was the 2 (or 3) pin taking out the corner.

So if a perfect strike is one where the 4 pin hits the 7 directly instead of on the rebound off the wall, Patrick Allen won back-to-back titles without ever throwing one that I saw.

Cheetah
I am by no means the coach or the bowler that coach
04 is but I learned something from one of my teamates that I use now. He has pulled me aside and
has told me your not having fun. Try this: If all
fails target the 6 pin on wooden lanes along with
your 2nd or 3rd arrow and on plastic lanes like the
Brunswick zones target the 3 pin. Well it worked for
me sunday when I used the 3 pin as target and the
3rd arrow or 15bd. The ball went to about 12bd and
broke into the pocket for a strike. First game 190,
second game with a 5 bagger 204, and last game 168
with an open in the tenth. I hope this helps someone. bowling joel

Your chart is in error... From board 17, to board 17 is zero degrees.

Coach, I'm not sure what you mean. A ball that breaks at the 17 board at 60 feet would really be a straight shot because the breakpoint would be at the pin, but it could still be 6 degrees, right?

To answer the topic question, 2-8 degrees WITH a 2.5 inch offset. Offset means the distance of the vertical axis of the headpin and the vertical axis of the ball.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Goodah Chunky:
To answer the topic question, 2-8 degrees WITH a 2.5 inch offset. Offset means the distance of the vertical axis of the headpin and the vertical axis of the ball. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">This is the question that cheetah really wanted answered:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Cheetahcan you determine a "perfect" breakpoint?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Watching the US Open telecast last night, and other tournaments this year, it's apparent that many/most of the successful pros aren't getting the ball out to the 7th board; they're playing the pattern in front of them. Chris Barnes' ball was breaking optimally from the 10th to the 12th boards in the title match; he was playing the 4th arrow.

We've seen a lot of these guys playing as far inside as the 5th arrow with success; angles into the pocket of maybe a couple degrees at the most. Obviously you can have success without the optimum 6 degree angle!

What are the most important factors for consistently carrying strikes with lower entry angles?

Dave

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by 802dave:

We've seen a lot of these guys playing as far inside as the 5th arrow with success; angles into the pocket of maybe a couple degrees at the most. Obviously you can have success without the optimum 6 degree angle!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Mika was playing between the 5th and 6th!
At least he wasn't walking in front of the ball return.

That last match between PA & Chris Barnes was an amazing game! Lots of mental back and forth!

Those guys are tough!

The perfect breakpoint is achieved when the criteria I posted before is met. So it all depends on where you lined up, what kind of shot you delivered and what was the oil condition at the time you delivered the shot.

Chunky