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#182326 - 10/28/13 03:35 PM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Yes, the ball felt good initially.
But my videos showed that I was still not behind the ball and that is why it was coming off easily.
Once I tried to get more behind the ball I kept sticking.
In time the pain started, a little at first then more with each practice session until now I can barely hold a coffee stir.
I hope I do recover.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

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#182341 - 10/29/13 12:19 PM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
The videos were with your conventional grip balls. I am not sure why you went back to those after your local Pro advised moving to a fingertip grip, and you had such great initial success with it. We don't have any video of you rolling the fingertip ball to make any assessment, but your report sounded very promising. I am also not sure why you continued to use the conventional grip ball after it started to hurt.

Also, be aware the challenge with converting to semi-roller is not just staying behind the ball but getting under the ball, that is, supporting the weight of the ball with your hand and wrist, not just your thumb on top of the ball. See the wrist test at the link below on Ron Clifton's website. http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip20.htm

This retrospective analysis is not meant to pick on you while you are in pain, but to help identify where you may have gone wrong in your attempt to convert to semi-roller in the event you want to try again some time in the future.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#182790 - 11/16/13 07:33 PM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Thanks Joe. I understand what you are saying and thank you for all your help.
It has almost been a month since my last post.

During this time I was able to take two weeks off from bowling to allow the thumb and wrist nerve to heal. It was so painful I really thought I was done.

My pro advised going to what worked for me in the past with some improvements.

I now use a standard span conventional grip, not the wider one I was using before.

I have 1/4 forward in fingers.
7/16 reverse in thumb.
1/4 left in thumb.
I now only use tape on the back of thumb, bare skin on front.
The skin gives me more traction on the thumb hole.

I put this drilling on my Karma Urethane.
I have gone back to full roller release.

I now have no pain in the thumb when I bowl.
In fact this last Thursday in league was the best I have bowled in a year.
Every release was smooth and easy and accurate.
Ball reaction was well controlled with my 1500 grit Urethane.
I used this one ball for strikes and spares.
My avg ball speed is up now to around 11.5mph at the pin deck.

After that Thursday night's session I had no pain of any type!
Normally I am always in pain, shoulder especially, wrist, arm and elbow, lower back, ankles ect.

This time no pain.

Most forums say that reverse pitch in the thumb makes you have to squeeze to hold the ball. Not true with me, I barely have to squeeze the ball to hold it with reverse now.

When I was running forward in my thumb I always felt tennis elbow pain from squeezing. With reverse pitch the pain is gone along with the generally great full body fatigue I would always feel after a bowling session.

I can feel that the ball is evenly supported by fingers and thumb. In fact the fingers are holding more of the weight of the ball than the thumb. I can lift the ball off the ground and hold it at my side with just my fingers.

Based on the great improvement in pain and effectiveness on the lane I am having now, I have decided to move up one pound in weight to 13lbs.

Perhaps the extra pound will help a bit in carry, though carry has been better with the new drilling than I have ever had.

Joe, I have decided to pick up a ball you recommend awhile back as very smooth with great back end, the Storm Natural Pearl.

I am loving the smooth urethane reaction which seems to suit my game. I am a natural full roller and feel that since I can bowl this way without pain and still have fun why not just try to improve on what I do best?

I have attached a pic of the layout I will use on it.

Comments are always appreciated.


Attachments
Full Roller Length Layout.png


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#182819 - 11/18/13 07:42 AM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Welcome back, Nord. Glad to hear you found a pain free solution to continue bowling. Best of luck with the Natural Pearl. The layout looks like a good match.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#182852 - 11/20/13 12:05 AM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Thanks a bunch Joe, I am excited about the new ball!
It is really beautiful and they did a great job on the drilling.
Here is a look at the layout.
You can see the balance hole location in the second pic.
I saw an old match with Billy Hardwick who had a balance hole in the same location.


Attachments
Natural Pearl Finger Holes.jpg

Natural Pearl Balance Hole.jpg


_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#182855 - 11/20/13 08:24 AM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
The ball looks great! I wish you the best of success with it.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#182906 - 11/22/13 03:04 PM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Well I tried the Natural Pearl last night in league with my new fancy Full Roller length/back end drilling.

This ball is amazing.
It went straight as an arrow and when it got some friction made a nice “smooth” move to the pocket and carried very, very well.
Looking at the ball I could see only one thin flare mark right through the center of the grip after a night’s play.
This ball is very powerful but has amazing control.
I used it for spares and strikes just like they did in the old days.

I stood with right foot on second dot and threw up second arrow all night and did not have to move an inch.
The ball kept doing the same thing over and over even as the lane broke down as my team mates used their reactives right over my line.

The result that night was a personal best game, not a high score game but a combination of high score and cleanness.
A clean 206.
I have only bowled two other games in my life where I had no open frames.

Up to this point I have been stuck at being a 150 avg. bowler for two years.
But now things are improving quickly.

I also am having no pain when I bowl. Just some soreness the next day that passes in a day or so.
I contribute all this improvement to the new drilling.

By finally using a proper correct conventional span, which is a shorter span then I used to use for my old conventional drilling, a drilling that has lots of forward in fingers and reverse in thumb, I have been able to bowl with complete comfort with no need to squeeze the ball. I have also now been able to move up to 13lbs from 12lbs.

With this new drilling the ball releases smoothly with nice lift and rotations and goes where I throw it without strain on the body.

The difference is night and day.

My experiment with forward pitch in thumb, fingertip grip and semi-roller and all the pain it caused was not a waste as it showed me what I really needed as far as grip and span.

I think I have finally found the right drilling and style and I have been getting very consistent and feel I am now finally on the way to progressing as a bowler.

At this point I will start taking some lessons to help iron out other kinks.

Mark Baker is in my area and gives lessons, he may be a good person to start with.

Thank you all for all you help these last two years in trying to figure it all out.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#182924 - 11/23/13 09:13 AM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Nord, I thought you would appreciate the following tribute to Billy Hardwick, one of your favorite bowlers, who passed away November 16, 2013. His story is an inspiration to all of us.
http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/bowling-great-billy-hardwick
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#182963 - 11/25/13 01:56 PM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
OMG! I did not know he passed this month.
Thank you Joe, I will read it with sadness.

Billy is my bowling hero.
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
#188202 - 08/29/14 04:30 AM Re: Proper Thumb Pitch for a Semi-Roller convert? [Re: nord]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 759
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Hey Joe,

Just thought I would let you know about an amazing result.

This last Tuesday we completed our new league at Kearny Mesa Bowl.

Ready for this?

My team came in second in point total, only one point under the leaders and in the roll off we came in second, less than 100 pins behind first place.

How do you like that for our first sanctioned league on a real heavy, high rev catering house shot?

How did a Full Roller and three low rev strokers beat basically everyone?

Consistency.

We just kept the ball in play, kept the head pin in front of us and focused on cleaning up the spares.

We all maintained our averages at pretty much what they started at with the occasional high game.

Old school vs. new school.

We played some amazing players with no handicaps and 200 plus averages and in some matches we were beating them scratch as they lost their reactions and we just kept the ball in the pocket.

As an example of how good these players are, during the roll off a team player next to us rolled his 25th 300 game!

So thanks for all your help and guidance.

Also I am getting stronger and bowling more than three games a week with 14lb balls and not feeling that much pain.

Here is a recent video of me preparing for our work league at the cursed Poway lanes which the pro says they are now putting down a very high scoring house shot.

I tried it out with my beloved Natural Pearl just to see what was up. Yes there is definitely a lot more oil in the middle but the sides and back are still real dry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5x-tLX4NY4&list=UUf6GUCTHB2kpDDi5zfh45mg&index=2
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Brunswick True Motion Urethane Axis Drill
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
Visionary Crow Urethane

Top
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