BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 4 of 21 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 20 21 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#186247 - 03/27/14 11:40 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? ***** [Re: nord]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
Hey Nord, to me the difference between the pros and the Joes, is not that the Pros have more revs. They certainly have more revs on average. The real difference is that they are more accurate and can repeat shots better. They adjust to transition better. They can play multiple parts of the lane whereas the Joes will want to play the one part of the lane they are best at and not move.

The real trick is combining the rev rate with all the rest of the package, then your playing at a pro level.
_________________________
A Storm is coming.

IQ Tour Fusion
IQ Tour anniversary edition
Lights Out
Natural

USBC level 1 certified coach

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#186248 - 03/27/14 11:41 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: nord]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
And I'm not referring to the Joe Bowler on here when I say Joes. lol.
_________________________
A Storm is coming.

IQ Tour Fusion
IQ Tour anniversary edition
Lights Out
Natural

USBC level 1 certified coach

Top
#186250 - 03/28/14 01:59 AM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: Smooth Stroker]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 726
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
A report from the field:

First off I believe I have finally found the right drilling, especially the thumb.

I did not feel a single tinge of pain in the thumb tonight in league.

I am now using ½ forward in the fingers with 3/8 right for the ring finger and ¼ left in the middle finger.

Thumb is using 1/8 reverse with zero lateral.

I am wrapping my thumb entirely with tape to keep the thumb a constant size and prevent swelling.

I have one piece of extra texture master tape in the front of the thumbhole to aid in holding on with a relaxed grip.

The release is now so smooth and easy and I have the best feel
I have ever had.

This is a conventional grip.

I am also using a Columbia 300 wrist brace glove.

So tonight was sweeps night.

The last night of league. A fun night and a night to experiment.

I had decided this night to try and throw my Storm Natural Pearl Urethane ball somewhere between 3 and 9 board and find some line to the pocket that way with a down and in shot, or a slightly out to in.

I had received advice from this forum and from Roto Grip that I need to play a more down and in shot for my style and I decided to try this.

The goal was to use the friction and outside area to create greater entry angle to the pocket.

So I started with right foot on 5 and rolling straight up 5.
Brooklyn.

Ok, so I moved my feet two left and same 5 target.
High.

Move left one more board with right foot, target still 5.
Pocket.

Ok, so I worked with this for the first game.

All pocket hits but two produced a strike, the rest were ten pins or splits.

I adjusted by pushing the ball over 5 out to three and back to create even more angle.

No change, pocket hits are all ten pins or splits.
Finished game with 158.

Second game.

Moved target to 7 out to 5 and back with right foot on 8.

Pocket produces ten pins, pocket splits and high hits.

Moved target left to 9 out to 5, right foot on ten.
Worse.

A pocket hit actually produced a 4-7-10 split with the 4 pin pushed left until it was lined up with the 7 like a double wood shot.

I struggle trying to get the ball to do something when it hits the pocket.

I had no strikes in this game and finish with a 136.

I start the third game confused and have an open in the first, spare in the second and open in the third frame.

In total confusion I ask a veteran bowler who I am friends with and I am playing against this night what the heck I should do.

He tells me that when I roll the ball in the outside area it hooks so much so early and comes back with such an angle that the ball actually stops curving towards the pocket and rolls straight to it for the last 15 feet or so.

He says I need to get my ball to hook “through the pocket” not hook and then roll straight at the pocket.

He tells me I need to make a move to the inside and play inside out so my ball will hook later and still be curving when it hits the pocket so it will drive through.

I have some doubt about this since I have a Pearl Urethane ball.

How can I play inside out with such a weak ball?

So I decide to try out my old line that I used with my Nano, right foot on 15, target 13 board out to 9 and back.

How can I get this to work with a Pearl Urethane?

First throw I get a nice side roll on the ball and it floats out to 9 and then makes a smooth subtle move to the pocket where it hits light, mixes them up and carries a great strike.

Huh?

I make a one board move right with my foot and keep the same line.

Now it is just right.

I keep at it and this is gold.

I close all frames, get super easy one pin spares, no splits, no lousy ten pins and I get a turkey and other strikes.

My ball speed was a consistent 11mph.

I end the game with a 198.

Why?

Why did this inside line suit me and this ball?

How could a Pearl Urethane ball at 4000 grit with a length layout turn the corner and carry like this for me?

Remember I am the low rev, slow ball speed, 90 degree axis, Full Roller.

But throwing inside out like this feels very natural for me and for some reason it is very easy for me to push the ball out with nice consistency and accuracy.

What I liked most about this line with this ball was the smooth subtle back end reaction it had.

It would push out and get traction and then hook through the pocket with nice continuation, but it would not jump like the slingshot.

I could see that this ball was rolling much, much sooner than the slingshot or my other dry lane reactives and this seemed to make the ball easier to control and stronger through the pins.

When I was playing with the outside area I now understand the ball was just rolling so soon that it died out.

By moving inside I could get this Pearl Urethane 4000 grit ball to act like a Storm Sync might in the hands of a high rev player with 18mph ball speed.

So I ask at this stage: If I wanted to move further inside (20 out to 10 and back) and use a stronger reactive ball that would give me a similar smooth urethane like roll, no jumping, what should I consider?

Since I am moving to lanes that have lots more oil than my current lanes, I worry that the Natural Pearl will be too weak to use as a strike ball.

I also know I do not like an angular skid/flip ball.

Such a ball always causes control problems for my style.

What should I do at this point?

What ball choice would help me on more oil?

Match Maker says a Tropical Breeze suits my style, but I don't want a ball that is late and angular.

At 11 mph with 90 degree side roll would simply using a stronger urethane ball be all I need?

Storm has a new urethane called the Pitch Black with 1000 grit finish.

Or would a stronger early rolling reactive work for me if I played more inside?
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

Top
#186253 - 03/28/14 05:53 AM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: nord
First off I believe I have finally found the right drilling, especially the thumb. I did not feel a single tinge of pain in the thumb tonight in league. I am now using ½ forward in the fingers with 3/8 right for the ring finger and ¼ left in the middle finger. Thumb is using 1/8 reverse with zero lateral. I am wrapping my thumb entirely with tape to keep the thumb a constant size and prevent swelling. I have one piece of extra texture master tape in the front of the thumbhole to aid in holding on with a relaxed grip. The release is now so smooth and easy and I have the best feel I have ever had.

Congratulations, that's great news! You are almost set for next season. You have new, better maintained lanes to bowl. You have now sorted out your grip. You have clarified what is your comfort zone, or "A" game. Your urethane Natural Pearl is working for you on drier lanes. So, what stronger, early rolling reactive would work for you playing inside when there is more oil? To replace your VG Nano, take a look at the Sync. You won't find a ball with a stronger core and cover combination. Note that the Pitch Black is designed to hook even less than other urethane balls. You can compare it with the Super Natural on Storm's website.

Without having been there, it's hard to diagnose exactly what went wrong with your trying to play further outside. First, it was recommended as a line to play with your reactive Slingshot, to take advantage of its go long, turn hard ball reaction. Second, my guess based on your description of where you were standing and targeting was that you were getting the ball to the friction too early. You want to use the head oil to get the ball down the lane before it hits the friction. Thus, the sharp angle through the heads as demonstrated in the video. That is what I would consider inside to outside. But, first you have to trust that your ball (not just some pro's) will make it back to the pocket and carry. Oh well, maybe something to work on over the summer as your "B" game?
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#186257 - 03/28/14 11:21 AM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 726
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Yes Joe it is great to finally find a fit.
This morning I have no pain, only slight soreness in the shoulder.
This is the first time in a year or more that I have felt this good after three games!

You are right, my ball must have got to the friction so early that it rolled out pretty much off my hand.

As the veteran said, my ball path shape was an angle, not a curve, straight to the break point then straight to the pocket.

I used my Natural Pearl because it was the only ball with the new drilling.

I have looked at the Sync and this video review:



In the review he says this ball will push pretty far down the lane and then really jump fast when it sees friction.

Not sure I want that violent reaction. I don't like balls to jump.

I want something that gradually responds to friction earlier and makes a nice gentle continuous move through the pocket so I can blend the lane better and control the reaction.

Would the Marvel S be a better choice?



_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

Top
#186259 - 03/28/14 12:12 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: nord]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Just one person's opinion, but if you are planning to use the ball to play deep and tight in the oil, I would say the Sync is a better match to what you need, while the Marvel S may be a better match to what you want.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#186264 - 03/28/14 02:51 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: Joe Bowler]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 726
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
So you think the sync would match up better to my style with an inside line similar to what I described?
13 out to 9 or even 15 to 10 or 9?
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

Top
#186272 - 03/28/14 06:34 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: nord]
djp1080 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 378
A/S/L: 70/m/IL
Nord, I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled to hear about your progress and finding a fit that seems to work for you including all that tape... smile
I've seen the Marvel S out on the lanes and it appeared very snappy to me. Looking at it's specs it appears similar to the Storm Vivid which is not as snappy at all. The Marvel S tends to go down the lane further before taking it's left turn than the matte finished Vivid.
The Tropical Breeze I have doesn't snap hard at the friction point on the lanes, but it does make a nice move towards the pocket for me especially when the lanes start drying out (e.g., in game 3 of league).
Best luck to you. Glad you've not given up...

Top
#186278 - 03/28/14 08:09 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: nord]
Smooth Stroker Offline
Legend

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1905
A/S/L: 45/M/Long Island
I would think that the Byte would be snappier than the Marvel S. The Marvel is a lower RG ball and should have a smoother transition than the Byte. I have a Marvel Pearl and the ball has a strong reaction in the backend, but not beyond control. I do not have a Byte so I cannot compare. According to the Storm website, the Marvel S is a stronger ball. The Byte is a pearl. It will get more length anyway. The Marvel S is a solid with a lower RG. it should be stronger with a smoother transition.
_________________________
A Storm is coming.

IQ Tour Fusion
IQ Tour anniversary edition
Lights Out
Natural

USBC level 1 certified coach

Top
#186282 - 03/28/14 08:48 PM Re: How to match a ball to the player's style? [Re: djp1080]
nord Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 726
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
Thanks for the vote of confidence djp1080.

Finding a grip that finally allowed pain free bowling with control was a major, major hurdle for me.

It is such a relief to know I now have a chance.

Now choosing a ball that will be smooth, that won't jump, and that will allow me to play an inside line on a more oily house shot with an extra foot of oil length with be the next hurdle.

With my 11mph, 90 degree axis rotation Full Roller release, I must find a ball that will not die out by the time it reaches the pocket, but will not react late making control difficult.

Will the Sync be too strong and die out?

Or will it roll smooth and make a nice turn and drive through?
_________________________
High Game: 259 bowled with The Hardwick Rubber Ball at Poway Bowl.
High Series: 630 bowled with Black Widow Urethane.
Composite Avg: 175

Arsenal
Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Hammer Black Widow Urethane
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane

Top
Page 4 of 21 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 20 21 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Where is every one?
by Mkirchie - Yesterday at 06:09 PM
Hammer Purple Pearl Urethane
by Dennis Michael - Yesterday at 04:49 PM
Motiv Venom Shock Pearl
by Jason_C - Yesterday at 10:51 AM
Fall/Winter Leagues 2017-18 thread
by IronMike - Yesterday at 09:54 AM
Competing against high rev, high speed players
by BowlerBill - 01/17/18 07:59 PM
Honor Scores Not Received By USBC
by Mkirchie - 01/10/18 02:34 PM
Dual Angle Layouts
by Dennis Michael - 01/10/18 10:26 AM
Roto-Grip Hyper Cell Fused Video Ball Review
by mmalsed - 01/08/18 11:41 AM
Dare Devil Danger Video Ball Review
by sk8shorty01 - 01/07/18 08:56 PM
Good advice from my brother!
by Dylan585 - 01/05/18 04:13 PM
"Knocking the Shine" off of my Pearl Ball
by 6_ball_man - 01/01/18 09:11 AM
Have a happy and safe Holiday
by goobee - 01/01/18 02:34 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.