BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#184883 - 02/04/14 10:33 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1159
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
I spent about 45 minutes typing another response to this thread, and when I looked back at how long and drawn out it was, I deleted it and closed my iPad. Sad thing is that the PBA would probably be better off if they decided not to broadcast their finals on TV at all. Prize funds were pretty good when ratings began to tank years ago. People like to watch large sums of money changing hands, but they often don't find out about the money unless they are already regular viewers. Just like I never knew who was going to be on the show until I tuned in at 3:30 on a Saturday afternoon on ABC. I watched no matter who was on, but I always enjoyed the shows that Earl Anthony made more than others. The Nielsen ratings didn't know if I liked the show more one week to the next, only that I watched.
Despite what most people think, the PBA is run by some pretty intelligent people. The product is just getting increasingly more difficult to sell.

I blame soccer.
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

Bowl up a Storm!

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#185275 - 02/19/14 12:15 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
mfreeman73 Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 02/14/14
Posts: 5
A/S/L: 40/m/Long Island
I've been thinking a lot about this subject and trying to figure out why bowling isn't more popular than it is. I've heard some people say it's boring to watch on TV. But, then why is golfing such a big sport on TV? It's much more boring to watch than bowling. Bowling has a lot more action and suspense than golf. And I'm not trying to knock golfing. I actually enjoy watching it on TV sometimes, too. One big difference between golfing and bowling is Tiger Woods. Sure, he isn't what he used to be, but when he came on the scene, golf ratings went up. So, do we need our own "Tiger Woods?" Well, I don't think it's as simple as that.

I tried to think about myself. I've only been watching the PBA over the past few years, although, I've enjoyed bowling most of my life. I would pass by it on TV and really not pay attention. But, I was the average bowler out there. I wasn't playing in leagues, I didn't own my own ball, and I bowled with friends every few months on a Friday night. Over the past few years, I bought my own ball and was finally wanting to learn how to really bowl. That got me interested in watching the PBA because I wanted to see how the pros were doing it. Then, once I started watching it, I got hooked. I started learning who the stars were and that made a big difference. And I started thinking that may be one of the keys.

The audience the PBA needs to start getting are all the "average" bowlers out there who aren't in leagues or that serious about it, but like to play from time to time. Not that they don't want the league bowlers, but I'm thinking they already have a lot of those. But, A LOT of people bowl, if even only a few times a year. But, I bet most of them couldn't name a PBA bowler. Or if they can, it's only a vague recollection of someone. Most of these average bowlers probably think of the PBA guys as "those non-athletic looking, out of shape, beer-belly, middle-aged guys." Now, I'm not saying that's the reality. I'm talking about perception. And when I talk to friends of mine, that's the perception they have. It's the perception I had before I started watching.

I think one of the keys to the PBA is changing people's perception of what the PBA is. When I go into the local bowling alleys, I don't see any of the PBA stars anywhere, beyond the random poster hidden in the corner or something like that. I think there has to be a way to spotlight the PBA and it's stars to all of the many average bowlers who come into the bowling alley here and there throughout the year. There has to be a way to say, "hey, this is really a sport with real athletes and it's fun to watch." Now, how to do that, I'm not sure. When Tiger Woods came on the scene, it made non-golfy type people take notice because here was a young, handsome, athletic guy who didn't fit the typical mold people thought of golf and he happened to be one of the best at it. Young people wanted to immolate him. Golf started to become cool and ratings went up. I think bowling definitely needs that kind of change. Now, if I can figure it out, I'd probably be a rich marketing executive. But, I'm not. So, I'm just throwing our random ideas. I just know that when I went to a PGA event a few years ago, my friends thought that was cool. When I told them I'm going to the USBC Masters this weekend they ask, "why would you want to go to that?"

Top
#185279 - 02/19/14 02:13 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1159
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
When I was 7 years old, I tagged along with a kid across the street to his pee-wee bowling league at the center a mile or two from home. League started at 9 am, it filled the 40 lane center, and we had to be out of there by no later than noon, because there was a second shift of juniors coming in behind us in the afternoon.

This was 1973.

The typical junior league bowler didn't really play any other sports. There were a few that played baseball, maybe one or two who played football, and I don't even know if any played basketball. There was no hockey in Virginia Beach, VA, so that was never a conflict. Mostly, junior bowlers weren't the biggest, strongest, most athletic kids around. Not knocking us in any way, it's just that bowling doesn't require as diverse a skill set as baseball, football, or basketball. It's a big part of what made the game so popular to so many people. You didn't have to be a world class athlete to enjoy it, get good at it, and even win at it.

This tells me that the average-sized person, and even smaller than average, can enjoy bowling. Getting them interested, and keeping them interested is the key. When do you get people interested in a sport like bowling? When they're kids, that's when. People get old and retire from the game. We won't even get into the people who just quit or cut back on the number of leagues they bowl. If you don't have a growing supply of youth bowlers backfilling the ranks, membership will continue to decline to the point where major organizations will fold.

So what happened with junior leagues? How did we go from double shifts in 40 lane centers to maybe 12-16 lanes of juniors at half the centers across the US. Here's a statistic I read today that says quite a bit.

"In 1967 there were 100,000 people playing soccer in the US; by 1984 that number had grown to over 4 million".

That time frame got me to thinking- my last year of junior leagues was in 1984, which was the year I graduated high school. We no longer ran double shifts (hadn't for several years), but still filled the 40 lane center. I went away to college for 4 years, didn't bowl for a couple of years after that, then decided to get back into it. I went to watch the juniors one Saturday, and they might have filled half the center. Depressing. A few years later, that center closed, and there is a PetsMart, a Bed Bath & Beyond and an HH Gregg in its spot.

So where did the kids go? Instead of dropping them off at the nearby bowling center, parents were dropping their kids off at the nearby soccer field. The kids who were too small or not athletic enough to play football, baseball, or basketball could run around a soccer field and get some exercise. 1967- 100,000 people. 1984- 4 million+. That's a 4000% increase in participation. Do you think at least 25-30% of those soccer players might have turned out to be league bowlers? I sure do. Look at the smaller bowlers who have made successful careers on the PBA tour- PDW, Norm Duke, Parker Bohn III, Amleto (how did he not become a soccer player?), Chris Warren, and dozens of others. Line them up with some of the most accomplished soccer players in the world, and you might not be able to tell a difference in them if you don't know who you're looking at.

I'm not even saying that a strong youth tournament program needs to be cultivated, because bowling needs the youth recreational bowler even more than the competitive bowler. Just by adding sheer numbers to the bottom line will feed enough competitive bowlers to the tournament scene. That will, in turn, feed bowlers into the PBA, where they can get their membership munchers back up, too.

Sadly, we have so many more choices to make concerning how we spend our time and money, bowling loses out more often than not for a lot of the people who may have put it higher on their list of fun things to do. If they don't bowl, they certainly won't watch it on TV.

When membership numbers began to decline in the 80s, many proprietors began marketing bowling as more of a recreational activity, and began turning off the lights and blaring the music on weekend nights. They found that they could fill the centers between the hours of 11 pm and 2 am with people who could throw the ball between their legs, behind their backs, with either hand, or any other means necessary, and didn't care one bit about their score! And these people filled the cash registers much more than the budding PBA star who practices at half price (or less) and whines when the 5 year old next to him won't give him a 2 lane courtesy. When bowlers, of all people, are looked at as elitist snobs (I know, I read it again), it drives potential members away. Who would you, if you were a bowling proprietor, hope returns to your center the following weekend? The casual, recreational bowler who pays full price, rents shoes, spends money at the snackbar, that's who.

So maybe competitive bowling is doomed. Maybe it will never be in the Olympics. Maybe the PBA would be better off not televising their finals (at least for awhile). The Olympics issue is an entirely different one, but it's sad that the International Olympic Committee pays American gold medal winners $25,000 for a gold medal, regardless of the sport. The PBA doesn't pay that much for anything other than a major anymore. Can it be fixed? I believe so, but it is going to take starting a lot more kids off when they're 5-7 years old or younger. Hopefully more kids tag along with their friends on Saturday mornings like I did.
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

Bowl up a Storm!

Top
#185290 - 02/20/14 08:16 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
SteveH Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 766
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
I'll stick to the (safer) PBA topic at this point :-)

I've only watched since last year? It's been fun to watch for us. But in a one-word description? Amateurish production. It's not the money, it's the people. If I got the job to critique their production efforts, I'd offer the following.

1. Get rid of Randy Peterson, fast.
2. Do Not let TO do anymore introduction or MC activities, ever again.
3. Bring in some talented bowlers that understand how to talk, and how to teach.


#1-Randy. I've watched the shows both with him muted and not-muted. The show's far more enjoyable without him. He's repetitive, contradictory, and fairly useless most of the time. It's very Hard to be good at this job, so no knock on him personally. Just not his bag.

#2-TO I thought his presence was a good idea for publicity and promotion. It's not. He's not only an amateur, he comes off as a goofy HS student that is soft-spoken. Frankly, it's embarrassing to see him with the mike.

#3-If I hear Randy say "For the first time ever" another hundred times, I will glue his mouth to a bowling ball LOL I've seen tons of You Tube videos that are far superior when discussing topics of instruction or even general information.

Hire Sk8 to do a weekly 30-second spot. It would be far more informative and personable to have him do it than two babbling heads. (Good bowlers once, bad for TV).


Do more Ultimate Scoring Championships, preferably in a large center with large population. Market it, promote it.

Continue to seek out publicity anywhere you can find it. Seeing an occasional bowling spot in advertising is not by chance, someone had the get it in there. There are some large chains of "bowling centers" now that are glamorous and extravagant. Time to take advantage of some of these venues. I think there was a celebrity/pro match at Lucky Strike LA earlier this year. Use these, those people have $$$

Bowling has proven to be a better TV spectator sport than I thought it would. I love to golf, but have grown away from the TV sport. I've asked some non-bowlers to watch just to try it, and they liked it. I was quite surprised actually.

Obviously just a cursory review. The PBA needs money, new vision, much more color, and a promotion model.
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
High League Series: 768
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
#185292 - 02/20/14 09:46 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
The bottom line with the PBA and bowling in general is there's not enough public interest. The telecasts can be tweaked but that only matters to the current viewers. For starters Xtra-Frame should be free and available/bundled in to all streaming devices and funded via some advertisements. Xtra-Frame clips can be added to convince people it's a sport and the thing to do by making it look cool. Things like more about the blue dye on the lanes, how pin setters/scorers work, pins made, multi-colored high powered bowling balls...tech it up and demonstrate it requires ability. Take advantage of the streaming/cord-cutting trend by offering something FREE.
_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

Top
#185305 - 02/20/14 01:47 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
rrb6699 (RayRay) Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 513
A/S/L: Single/male/FL
i dont think they should go up against the NFL and college games for a huge part of the season. they should hold telecasts on Tuesday or Wednesday nights where there'll be less more popular sports competing for viewers. does it matter which days they have finals on ?

rr
_________________________
Twnr-RH
300(13) 290(36) 280(30)
Ser- 1072-4g 867-3g
Tilt: 15, AoR- 65, PAP: 4 3/4ovr, 3/4up,
Sp:15.5 avg
Alpha Crux-15#
Guru Mastr-15#
Sinister-15#
Grenade-16#
Quantum Violet-16#
Wht Dot-16#
MoRich Frenzy-15#
Multi wins/Top 5 Finshes-Scr&Hcp events

Top
#185306 - 02/20/14 02:30 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
SteveH Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 766
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
Pretty good idea there Ray. I also agree that Xtra frame should be free, and they can promote the crap out of bowling there. Get a free iTunes channel, get it everywhere. I'm sure they can make more within a year or two than constantly having to Pay ESPN.

I've seen far worse on TV nowadays. With the online streaming and recorded availability, they could effectively televise all tournaments from beginning to end.
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
High League Series: 768
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
#185307 - 02/20/14 02:48 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
SteveH Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 766
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
I have Xtra Frame on now. It's nice to see the broken down lane conditions, some pro bowlers bowling miserably. After my performance, last night, makes me feel a little bit better.

A 159 bowled !!
I haven't seen so many splits and left spares since galactic bowling on NY Eve.


Edited by SteveH (02/20/14 02:53 PM)
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
High League Series: 768
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
#185308 - 02/20/14 03:57 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: SteveH]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Originally Posted By: SteveH

...
Hire Sk8 to do a weekly 30-second spot. It would be far more informative and personable to have him do it than two babbling heads. (Good bowlers once, bad for TV).
...


LOL, thanks for the shootout, I'm waiting for my call Tom Clark!

If there was room for someone like me to do a quick segment I would definitely take something like that.

I think the hardest part is getting a casual fan to understand the nuances of the game. People understand what a sand trap looks like, its obvious when a pro tour golfer hits a bad shot. When a bowler does the same you can't tell if its a good shot or a bad shot (for many observers) so its hard to commentate without knowing whats going on.
_________________________
Storm Amatuer Staff Member
BowlersMart.com Staff Member
Logo Infusion Staff Member
IAB Staff Member

PBA Member
USBC Level 1 Certified Coach
Head Coach - Cocoa High School

Career 300 games - 5
Career 800 series - 6
High Scratch Series - 823

Top
#185310 - 02/20/14 04:07 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
SteveH Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 766
A/S/L: 62/M/Burlington VT
I've seen a lot of your videos on ball reviews sk8, and they're very descriptive and easy to follow. I'd give you a spot that shows an average bowler what he just did wrong due to lane conditions or release.

There was a match a few weeks ago where even I understood what had happened as a bowler continued to drift headpin, then left. It took Randy a frame or two to note that the bowler had changed balls And moved left. He's more like a weatherman that gives you the forecast for today, tomorrow. Occasionally he says something informative, but those are rare moments.

I think both your tone of voice, and ability to breakdown something complex and make it understandable could be of value to most bowlers.
_________________________
Current League average 178

High League game: 290
High League Series: 768
High Tournament Series 723
Arsenal so far: [all 15#]
Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Storm Byte
Storm Hy Road Pearl
Storm Ride
Roto-Grip Disturbed
Storm Lucid
Roto-Grip Crown

Top
Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Storm Hy-Road Surface
by djp1080 - Yesterday at 10:42 AM
Fall/Winter 2018-19 Leagues Thread
by Mkirchie - 10/21/18 07:57 AM
Mo Pinel "Striking Effectively In Today's Game"
by BOSStull - 10/14/18 06:16 AM
Buying new house shoes.
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:58 AM
Storm/Roto Grip MatchMaker Live
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:44 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.