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#184749 - 01/31/14 02:38 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
If the PBA supporters want to see the PBA succeed and stay on the air the answer is simple and won't really cost you anything.

Support the current PBA sponsors. Buy Barbasol instead of your normal shaving gel/cream, switch to Geico, drink Budweiser, drink pepsi, buy expand a hose instead of a normal hose. Etc. If the sponsors see a ROI then they will continue to advertise, and the PBA can go out and market their success to more sponsors.

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#184753 - 01/31/14 05:17 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
There is another way to increase the prize money for national PBA events...by increasing the entry fee. Without help from any other source, 250 bowlers paying a $5,000 entry fee would provide a $1,000,000 prize fund with $250,000 to cover tournament expenses. The payout could be to the top 25 spots, with the top 3 spots paying $250,000, $100,000, and $50,000. The burden of sponsorship would then be the bowler's, not the PBA's.

_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
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#184757 - 01/31/14 09:24 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1163
A/S/L: 53/M/Virginia Beach, VA
I brought up the question of entry fees to a competitive golfer friend of mine, and he said the entry fee to a PGA tour event is $1000 for most events- I think he said majors were more. If I'm not mistaken, they pay half the field- anyone who tees up on Saturday and Sunday. I don't ever see those events struggling to fill the field, as there are hundreds if not thousands of PGA tour professionals trying to get up high enough on the money list to get them an exempt spot. 120-128 golfers at $1000 a pop pays the winner plus maybe part of the runner-up's share. The rest is paid by tournament sponsors.
Increasing the entry fee to a PBA event to $2500-5000 is a sure fire way to cut the field size to about 20-30 per event. If you don't pay at least half the field, if not more, bowlers won't be able to keep dropping that kind of money, even if it's sponsorship money.
The licensing fee that the PBA wants to charge keeps a lot of sponsors away. If a local business wants to sponsor a bowler, and they're not on the list of licensed sponsors, that bowler cannot display the business' name anywhere on his person. I still remember cutting the Dockers tags off the pants I wore to a regional because Levi's is not, and still isn't , a licensed sponsor of the PBA. I couldn't put my sponsor's name on my shirt, either, but we were all asked to wear "Wild Turkey" patches because they were sponsoring the Southern region.
The ad agency who works with the PBA also has one of the MMA organizations as a client, and we all know how that has exploded. So much so that boxing is on the steepest decline it's ever been on. Wrestling enjoyed a revival for a long time, but it's losing a lot of its viewers to UFC, for many reasons, but I would have to guess that it's because of the brutal authenticity and the fact that it is actually a sport. Wrestling has decided to stop calling itself a sport, and is now referring to itself as sports entertainment.
I'm a big fan of patronizing the tour's sponsors- if they sell something I can use. At the moment, I have no need to switch car insurance companies, I haven't eaten beef jerky in several years (not because I don't like it- I'm eating a lot healthier these days), I'm not putting in hardwood floors (although I may do this in a couple of years), and none of the As Seen on TV products appeal to me. Oh, and I shave with an electric razor. I might be due for a new one of those soon, though, and if I get a new one, it'll probably be a wet dry razor.
If anyone is still reading this, and you're one of the people who chooses to wait until the tour telecast uploads to YouTube to watch it, you're costing the PBA ad revenue as well as ratings. You're part of the reason the PBA has to pay ESPN to be seen, and that the only slot they can afford is opposite the NFL. I would guess that if another sport came along and offered them more for the time slot, the PBA would be back on the CBS Sports Network, or some other obscure network. Or off TV altogether.
So I guess my point is that we all have some say in whether the PBA survives, or rather how long they can survive. Blaming everyone else for things we can all do our part to help them will just bring the end of the tour that much sooner.
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

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#184760 - 01/31/14 11:00 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: Joe Bowler]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2147
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
There is another way to increase the prize money for national PBA events...by increasing the entry fee. Without help from any other source, 250 bowlers paying a $5,000 entry fee would provide a $1,000,000 prize fund with $250,000 to cover tournament expenses. The payout could be to the top 25 spots, with the top 3 spots paying $250,000, $100,000, and $50,000. The burden of sponsorship would then be the bowler's, not the PBA's.


At first thought, I thought there's no way this would work. Who's got $5000 to enter an event, let a lone a full tour of events?

But upon further thinking, I realized, money talks. $250,000 is a lot of money, and if they were bowling for it every week, if would draw a field. It might change the names of who enters the tournaments (it would become either those who already have the money to drop or those who can persuade sponsors/backers to support them.)

Frankly, sponsors don't really care what they're sponsoring, so long as they see income from it. If Chris Barnes was allow to walk into Rolex Headquarters and say "sir, I'm one of the best bowlers in the world, I'm competing for $250k a week, 35 times a year, and I need a sponsor" they would do it.

And with bowlers bowling for more money, it would generate a larger TV audience. That's why golf, tennis, and poker are popular TV choices. The ratings they get aren't simply poker players watching poker; its people coming to see big dollars change hands. With a larger TV audience comes more sponsors.

Its really the theory of gravity. Big things draw in lots of stuff. Little things don't draw in much.

The structure would have to change a bit, but Joe you might be on to something.
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Nowadays, I open bowl practice and go to Nationals every year.

USBC Open personal bests: 226/602/1690
USBC Open career average: 174.66 (45 Games)

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#184762 - 01/31/14 11:23 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: B-Hammer]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1382
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
If the PBA supporters want to see the PBA succeed and stay on the air the answer is simple and won't really cost you anything.
Support the current PBA sponsors. Buy Barbasol instead of your normal shaving gel/cream, switch to Geico, drink Budweiser, drink pepsi, buy expand a hose instead of a normal hose. Etc. If the sponsors see a ROI then they will continue to advertise, and the PBA can go out and market their success to more sponsors.


LOL that would be a problem:

Barbasol - I do shave my head but don't use shaving cream. That foaming hand soap my wife gets works WAY better!
Budweiser - I'm a craft supporter, drinker, and brewer. . . no non-American (they're owned by Belgian InBev) fizzy yellow water for me! smile (no offense if you're a Bud drinker - just pokin fun)
Expanding hose - bought a couple. Our water pressure is SO friggin HIGH that they explode on us. Their warranty is good, lol, but the replacements still burst! Kinda funny tho.
Etc. Etc. Etc. smile
_________________________
Avg: 206
Season High Gm: 279 / Lifetime: 290
Season High Ser: 762 / Lifetime: 762

16# IQ Tour Pearl/16# Crux/16# Marvel S/15#White Dot

"Gotta kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight"

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#184785 - 02/01/14 07:08 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: champ]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: champ
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
There is another way to increase the prize money for national PBA events...by increasing the entry fee. Without help from any other source, 250 bowlers paying a $5,000 entry fee would provide a $1,000,000 prize fund with $250,000 to cover tournament expenses. The payout could be to the top 25 spots, with the top 3 spots paying $250,000, $100,000, and $50,000. The burden of sponsorship would then be the bowler's, not the PBA's.

At first thought, I thought there's no way this would work. Who's got $5000 to enter an event, let a lone a full tour of events?

But upon further thinking, I realized, money talks. $250,000 is a lot of money, and if they were bowling for it every week, if would draw a field. It might change the names of who enters the tournaments (it would become either those who already have the money to drop or those who can persuade sponsors/backers to support them.)

Frankly, sponsors don't really care what they're sponsoring, so long as they see income from it. If Chris Barnes was allow to walk into Rolex Headquarters and say "sir, I'm one of the best bowlers in the world, I'm competing for $250k a week, 35 times a year, and I need a sponsor" they would do it.

And with bowlers bowling for more money, it would generate a larger TV audience. That's why golf, tennis, and poker are popular TV choices. The ratings they get aren't simply poker players watching poker; its people coming to see big dollars change hands. With a larger TV audience comes more sponsors.

Its really the theory of gravity. Big things draw in lots of stuff. Little things don't draw in much.

The structure would have to change a bit, but Joe you might be on to something.

I agree 100% about the poker, golf, and tennis phenomenon. Other than the diehard fans, it's the size of the prize that attracts players, sponsors, coverage, and viewers. For example, below are the entry and payout details for an upcoming World Poker Tour tournament. In summary, there is a $3,500 entry fee, a $1,000,000 guaranteed prize fund, and a payout schedule depending on the number of entries. For example, with 250 entries, they would pay a minimum of 25 spots and at least $235,000 for first, $165,000 for second, and $106,000 for third. They have obviously given this a lot of thought and worked out the details to attract a huge audience and number of players.

If bowling were structured this way, a bowler with a 50-50 split with their sponsor would only have to win one national tournament per year to make a decent living. One good year could make a top, self-sponsored bowler a millionaire! Those are the kind of numbers that would change everything for the sport of bowling. Because, when you take away the money, all you have left are the diehard fans, and that is not enough to support an enterprise over the long term.

But, we are just talking. Excuse me while I go eat some beef jerky with the hope that helps the PBA survive. wink


Attachments
WPT Entry.pdf (329 downloads)
WPT Payout.pdf (214 downloads)

_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#184789 - 02/01/14 12:23 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: Joe Bowler]
BIGHMW Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 414
A/S/L: 48/M/Port Townsend, WA
Hey Joe Bowler,

In response to your earlier darts post, There ARE those rare moments in LIVE televised sports history and here's one of them, yes, in darts of all things:



Try THIS on for size, this is the iconic Phil Taylor, a.k.a. "The Power", with the first ever LIVE televised 9-darter (he's thrown many 9-darters on TV since), which is darts equivalent of a 300 game for us bowlers, and this one was worth a whopping 100,000 pounds, that's right, 100,000 English pounds, approximately $200,000 U.S.!!! Now if we marketed our players on the PBA Tour like the darts industry does Phil Taylor, the PBA would be much-better managed.
_________________________
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Ray Jackson
HEAVY METAL WARRIOR, LTD.
Where the fans come FIRST!!!

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#184793 - 02/01/14 02:23 PM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
This video went around a while ago, loved it. As much as anything, the announcers and the crowd reaction made it. Who knew Charlie Brown was such a bad cat?



The issue I see with just raising entry fees is, it's not sustainable. Look, when you enter a local tournament, what it really is, is a simple money exchange between the bowlers. AND we pay the house a bowling fee for our trouble. Financially, we'd be better off if we put everyone's entry fee in an envelope and drew straws to determine a winner. Eventually, only a few that felt they had a good shot to win would actually enter. Kind of like this thing that happened a few years ago... Bowerlsdeals All-in Showdown There needs to be money coming in from outside the players (and their sponsors). When Belmo rolls an Uproar in a fashion almost nobody else can duplicate, us house hacks at home watch this and think "hey I need that ball!". We buy it for that silly reason. They're not giving bowling balls away these days (although the Uproar is relatively cheap), some of that money needs to filter it's way back.


Edited by RickSchott (02/01/14 02:32 PM)
_________________________
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#184814 - 02/02/14 02:22 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: 56bird]
Gohokies Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 50/male/Arlington, Va
I didn't realize how bad a shape the pba was in. I do know there past history has not been good, but was encouraged last year when they added a few more tournaments Detroit swing in winter and summer swing. I was glad to see the toc in January because I was ready for some live versus taped bowling. Then I read an article from December on why it moved and that was sad. It replaced the Detroit tournament this year to save costs. The article also said the pba league format was changed for the same reason and the players in the league would still get there salaries but no extra prize money. Couple that with no sponsor for the us open so no us open. I think that sums it up best. If you can't get a sponsor for the national championship then you aren't going to get a sponsor for anything. I think the clock is seriously ticking.

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#184816 - 02/02/14 08:46 AM Re: The dismal state of the PBA as it stands right now [Re: BIGHMW]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: BIGHMW
Hey Joe Bowler,

In response to your earlier darts post, There ARE those rare moments in LIVE televised sports history and here's one of them, yes, in darts of all things:



Try THIS on for size, this is the iconic Phil Taylor, a.k.a. "The Power", with the first ever LIVE televised 9-darter (he's thrown many 9-darters on TV since), which is darts equivalent of a 300 game for us bowlers, and this one was worth a whopping 100,000 pounds, that's right, 100,000 English pounds, approximately $200,000 U.S.!!! Now if we marketed our players on the PBA Tour like the darts industry does Phil Taylor, the PBA would be much-better managed.

Don't get me wrong. Not knocking darts at all. My point is just that unless you are an aficionado of darts, you might not recognize names live Phil Taylor, Michael van Gerwen, or Raymond van Barneveld, and are probably not going to watch it on TV. But, talk about marketing...you only have to watch the first few minutes of the video below to get the idea that these guys are rock stars among their fans. The house is so packed, I am sure the folks in the back can't even see the dart board, let alone where the dart landed. They have to watch the action on screen, but are there in person cheering any way. Nice! It will be interesting to see how today's PBA Super Clash compares.

_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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